New fighters in actual games
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Greg Smith
Mongoose
It works well. It gives those fighters a little extra bite and doesn't radically change the balance of the game.
JayRaider said:
It really not that bad. My Vree did quite well against the Minbari tonight. What I saw tonight is that if you keep you Vree ships together fighters will have a most one turn to hit you before they die. This was really brought home when I let one scout get a little far away from the fleet and it was jumped on. Vree are always going to be hard to win with. They die in droves, it doesn't matter what's shooting at them. While this did make it a little bit harder they are still fun to play.
Twin-Linked Aldades
Mongoose
From our campaigning group I can say...
The Drakh don`t care apart from the occasional crit, their GEG is a great protection.
EA hates it, even though they usually have the dogfighter numbers to put up a screen, those that get through score a few hits and for some curse these are enough to overload the interceptors.
The Centauri republic seems invunerable, nobody seems to roll those bloody 6`s vs him.
The Brakiri don`t care, thier fleet consists mainly of Batrados and they soak up those few points easily.
The Vree and the Drazi hate it the most, their low hull, few damage and the fact for the vree that stealth is ignored within an inch make the little buggers fleetkillers.
The opponents of the Narn don`t have a clue what a fighter looks like. Rumour has it it where those little chunks of metal scattered somewhere in the middle between both fleets...
The Drakh don`t care apart from the occasional crit, their GEG is a great protection.
EA hates it, even though they usually have the dogfighter numbers to put up a screen, those that get through score a few hits and for some curse these are enough to overload the interceptors.
The Centauri republic seems invunerable, nobody seems to roll those bloody 6`s vs him.
The Brakiri don`t care, thier fleet consists mainly of Batrados and they soak up those few points easily.
The Vree and the Drazi hate it the most, their low hull, few damage and the fact for the vree that stealth is ignored within an inch make the little buggers fleetkillers.
The opponents of the Narn don`t have a clue what a fighter looks like. Rumour has it it where those little chunks of metal scattered somewhere in the middle between both fleets...
Epaminondas
Mongoose
Vree- last night played a 3 point battle, EA carrier task force against 2 vree xill, and two battle level guys (some other faction).
Third turn the thunderbolts ranged in on one Xil; something like 8-10 fighters concentrating on it. 2 hull points left after one turn of firing
On the way, they also shot up a battle level guy (he had graviton beams), making his weapons only fire on a 4+.
After the Olympus with heavy missles got range on the other Xil and blew it out of the sky (mmm triple damage on a 6-5 crit), the rest jumped out.
They did pop a nova, a hyperion and a olympus... but if they had stayed, the fighters would have ripped him apart... it would have taken me about 5-6 turns per battle level ship.
===
The enemy failed to concentrate his ships; he had some Antifighter weaponry, but was so spread out, my fighters could concentrate on one ship while only taking fire from one ship.
The enemy had zero fighters against my 17; I took 4 starfuries, and 13 thunderbolts.
Third turn the thunderbolts ranged in on one Xil; something like 8-10 fighters concentrating on it. 2 hull points left after one turn of firing
On the way, they also shot up a battle level guy (he had graviton beams), making his weapons only fire on a 4+.
After the Olympus with heavy missles got range on the other Xil and blew it out of the sky (mmm triple damage on a 6-5 crit), the rest jumped out.
They did pop a nova, a hyperion and a olympus... but if they had stayed, the fighters would have ripped him apart... it would have taken me about 5-6 turns per battle level ship.
===
The enemy failed to concentrate his ships; he had some Antifighter weaponry, but was so spread out, my fighters could concentrate on one ship while only taking fire from one ship.
The enemy had zero fighters against my 17; I took 4 starfuries, and 13 thunderbolts.
played it a ocuple of times, and it doesn't really seem that different, Admitedly, I always used my frazi's quite tactically anyway, they just fire a few minutes arlier now than usual. I still think it's stupid, but it hasn't done me much harm, but then I have the best antifighter weapon in the game!
Locutus9956
Mongoose
I have a simple solution for the Vree, give antimatter shredders a special kind of a specail kind of antifighter rule that gives that allows you to effectively choose to fire them as a an emine but with half the ad and droping to AP from SAP and losing double damage.
The shredder in the show (and in B5Wars) was an icredibly good antifighters weapon. This rule would effecitvely give the vree a nasty long ranged fighter sweeping ability and would work quite well I think
The shredder in the show (and in B5Wars) was an icredibly good antifighters weapon. This rule would effecitvely give the vree a nasty long ranged fighter sweeping ability and would work quite well I think
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
And there is the only significant part of this report...Epaminondas said:
Wulf
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
It's not easy for most other races to match up to the EA's fighter numbers, though. Not many raid and battle choices come with four flights of excellent dogfighters and brilliant anti-ship fighters.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I'd need four Sentris or Raziks to match up to a Nial flight. Brutal fighters, both excellent at dogfighting and ship killing. Two per wing seems more fair than just one, though...
B_Steele
Mongoose
As a League player (amongst other things), sure my Vree get a little banged up against DROVES of other fighters...but that is the beauty and weakness of the League. Individually they all have pretty serious weaknesses...only together they can stand strong.
What I've noticed in my games is that I am more likely to take a few points in Vree fighters to give some protection to my big ships. Keep 'em close, sacrifice them if you have to in a dogfight...but that leaves those fighters that are going to chew you up from shooting for a turn; therefore allowing you to sweep in (Vree mobility, remember?) and make use of your anti-fighter stuff.
Basically, the fighter change gives those fighters some punch, and requires players to take balanced fleets if they want to better ensure a win.
Hope that helps!
Bry
What I've noticed in my games is that I am more likely to take a few points in Vree fighters to give some protection to my big ships. Keep 'em close, sacrifice them if you have to in a dogfight...but that leaves those fighters that are going to chew you up from shooting for a turn; therefore allowing you to sweep in (Vree mobility, remember?) and make use of your anti-fighter stuff.
Basically, the fighter change gives those fighters some punch, and requires players to take balanced fleets if they want to better ensure a win.
Hope that helps!
Bry
But a fairly common situation for the Vree.
I have been trying with a variaty of races to get some use out of the rule. What I have seen is that it is very dependant on fighter numbers. Independant wings still do not make sense unless you buy the shedload and your opponent does not. If that happens then he who bought the shedload gets to eviscerate his opponent.
It is not just the Vree who have problems, though they are one of the biggest issues. Most of the league can have issues with the rule as smaller ships are vulnerable to sudden fighter death syndrome regardless of hull. The point at which your AD totals begin to give statistically likely crits is the tipping point I believe.
Typical fleets do not achieve this point and fleet design has not yet caught up to the new rule. But I have seen several games where fighters were a significant force against most races but the drahk (and even there we got a quick shot off that shut down a light cruiser).
The issue is that T-bolts/Nials/Rutatrians/etc...fast fighters with more than a couple of AD do this very well and other fighters generally do not. Races that were already strong got stronger from this ruleing and races that were already tough to play got weaker.
The comment above about sticking the fleet together does not seem to be holding true around here. Trying to remain in anti-fighter range of friendly ships just seems to get you into the explosion range of you detonating partners when the cap ships start firing. That and fighters just move to flank area and nibble inwards.
Still haven't seen fighters last as long as their cap ship equivalent in pl but they do have a certain prescence firepower wise, you just have to have enough to do instant cripples or you mostly get ignored.
Ripple
I have been trying with a variaty of races to get some use out of the rule. What I have seen is that it is very dependant on fighter numbers. Independant wings still do not make sense unless you buy the shedload and your opponent does not. If that happens then he who bought the shedload gets to eviscerate his opponent.
It is not just the Vree who have problems, though they are one of the biggest issues. Most of the league can have issues with the rule as smaller ships are vulnerable to sudden fighter death syndrome regardless of hull. The point at which your AD totals begin to give statistically likely crits is the tipping point I believe.
Typical fleets do not achieve this point and fleet design has not yet caught up to the new rule. But I have seen several games where fighters were a significant force against most races but the drahk (and even there we got a quick shot off that shut down a light cruiser).
The issue is that T-bolts/Nials/Rutatrians/etc...fast fighters with more than a couple of AD do this very well and other fighters generally do not. Races that were already strong got stronger from this ruleing and races that were already tough to play got weaker.
The comment above about sticking the fleet together does not seem to be holding true around here. Trying to remain in anti-fighter range of friendly ships just seems to get you into the explosion range of you detonating partners when the cap ships start firing. That and fighters just move to flank area and nibble inwards.
Still haven't seen fighters last as long as their cap ship equivalent in pl but they do have a certain prescence firepower wise, you just have to have enough to do instant cripples or you mostly get ignored.
Ripple
