New Errata
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
deadshane said:
They are all official, but we are not going to send round the gaming police if you want to use one but not the other
In a Mongoose-run tournament (and other tournament organisers are welcome to handle this as they see fit, though I recommend they make it clear before people turn up) we would use all of it. In a tournament setting, clarity is all important and if we say 'everything' it is quite clear what we mean.
Thanx for the attention to detail on the Errata Matt.
I for one prefer a clean/balanced ruleset and like for everyone (especially in a tournament situation) to be on the same page.
It's clear to me that you guys are doing your best with what you have to work with.
Good job! :mrgreen:
I for one prefer a clean/balanced ruleset and like for everyone (especially in a tournament situation) to be on the same page.
It's clear to me that you guys are doing your best with what you have to work with.
Good job! :mrgreen:
I don't consider the errata so far to be significant and frankly, other than the proofreader him/herself, who cares if their name is spelled wrong?
90% of the errata seems to be things like adding a transporter, changing a lab number or noting something has zero probes which only marginally rises above who cares to a slight yawn. I do expect and hope that over time, ships and points do get tweaked which is a healthy sign the game is under constant improvement rather than simply sticking to the first iteration, whether good or not.
I have not played enough to form a firm opinion but the Gorn and to a lesser extent the Romulans, may need some tweaking if the game is to have a varied and lively tournament career ( not my thing but it helps sales). Some ships may need point adjustment or simply some general guideance on timeline as in the classic Fed CA and certainly the CC may be ideal for mid and early war but overmatched and possibly cheaper in a late war scenario.
I saw yesterday that Age of Honor had an update issued that amounts to a multipage errata book. Vibrant games always change (see FOW v3.0) and I sincerely hope we see ACTA v1.5, v2.0 etc.
90% of the errata seems to be things like adding a transporter, changing a lab number or noting something has zero probes which only marginally rises above who cares to a slight yawn. I do expect and hope that over time, ships and points do get tweaked which is a healthy sign the game is under constant improvement rather than simply sticking to the first iteration, whether good or not.
I have not played enough to form a firm opinion but the Gorn and to a lesser extent the Romulans, may need some tweaking if the game is to have a varied and lively tournament career ( not my thing but it helps sales). Some ships may need point adjustment or simply some general guideance on timeline as in the classic Fed CA and certainly the CC may be ideal for mid and early war but overmatched and possibly cheaper in a late war scenario.
I saw yesterday that Age of Honor had an update issued that amounts to a multipage errata book. Vibrant games always change (see FOW v3.0) and I sincerely hope we see ACTA v1.5, v2.0 etc.
Kirksfolly
Mongoose
It's my experience, after many years of gaming various rules over many periods - historical and fictional - that 'play balance' is invariably subjective. I can't see how it could be otherwise. Therefore, there will always be debates over the value of a particular troop type or, as with these rules, weapons and craft. It's the way of the wargaming world.
To me it seems obvious from Matts post that the changes were to match the SFU and were "assumed" to be balanced because "they always have been" - depsite that fact the previous balance was for a very different game with different mechanisms.
Looking at the ships from a purely game point of view - did either the Romulan or Gorn ships need to be amended in this fashion? I would say no.
In fact there is a good argument to allowing Plasma D repalcement mounts for some of the Gorn ships plasma weapons so they can actually use the new defense mechanism in the errata
However I guess this will be forbidden or they will have to wait till booster pack 234 or some such thing.........................
Looking at the ships from a purely game point of view - did either the Romulan or Gorn ships need to be amended in this fashion? I would say no.
In fact there is a good argument to allowing Plasma D repalcement mounts for some of the Gorn ships plasma weapons so they can actually use the new defense mechanism in the errata
However I guess this will be forbidden or they will have to wait till booster pack 234 or some such thing.........................
Kirksfolly said:It's my experience, after many years of gaming various rules over many periods - historical and fictional - that 'play balance' is invariably subjective. I can't see how it could be otherwise. Therefore, there will always be debates over the value of a particular troop type or, as with these rules, weapons and craft. It's the way of the wargaming world.
Only balanced game in the world is coin flip
Poker gets decently close but even that needs extra stipulations like everybody gets to play exact same amount of hands in same relative positions and even then it's not necessarily fair. After all player seat position has huge effect so if you have slightly worse player on your left you are in trouble vs him despite your skill advantage...And player who sit right left of bad players is going to have a field day raking in money compared to somebody who has good player on his right(unless you also happen to have very good player on your left at which point you are in tricky situation).
And THAT is in game where everybody has same tools at their disposal. Never mind games where everybody's pieces operate differently, where gaming environments differ(board sizes, availability of models, terrain amount and sizes etc etc etc etc). Anybody thinking there could be honestly balanced game...Well guess we are all allowed to dream whatever we wish
Da Boss said:
The thing people seem to be clashing over is, what is the source material. The source material is really Star Fleet Battles not Star Trek. The license with Paramount is pretty specific ADB only gets to uses stuff they had in their game prior to their agreement and can not add anything more from the show. This means though the D7 looks like the one seen on the TV screen it is not. It also means that the weapons it carriers are dictated by SFB. Number and type are suppose to stay consistent across all game platforms.
You opinion is that adding or subtracting a few weapons it does not make a difference in game play. Ok let me ask you this. If I stated up a WW2 Iowa class battleship. Would it matter if I gave it 12 9" guns instead of 9 9" guns? Or what if I made a Challenger tank with 2 120mm main guns. Would that affect game play? What if I reduced the Iowa to only 6 9" guns or the Challenger to a 40mm gun?
Da Boss said:
The Gorn Ships you are looking for are DDE, BDE, HDE, and CLE. The Romulan ships are the SNE, BHE, SKE, and SPM. As has been stated before the are a few thousand ship types in the SFU. Seriously if you can think of it it is probably already out there.
Rambler said:
Thats not what I said at all - in fact quite the opposite - I am saying that if you change things for one reason (to fit in with the SFU) don't pretend you are not changing the balance on the ships. To follow your example:
If you made up rules for your Challenger with a 40mm gun, tested it and pointed it out and someone said - are you mad it has a compeletly different gun - would you keep it at the same points cost and if so why!? Thats whats happening here and any quesitions are simply met with a dismissive - "its always been that way, we have no interest in looking at the points cost".
Da Boss said:
But as I said will we have to wait years because they are in some wierd booster pack or some such rather than the core rules when such ships can be easily put in?Rambler said:
Captain Jonah
Mongoose
Da Boss said:
Waiting for them. :lol:
Rambler said:
Yep I know.
Waiting for them :wink: :lol:
Something to ask here. The new races and new models are going to be coming out with the new books every so often. Battleships this year etc.
There are, however, a mass of ships that use existing models and which can be release as simply a stat block. Such as the escorts, scouts etc based on existing DD/DW/CL/CW hulls with a tiny bit of kit bashing.
Are these going to be release in something like the ADBs communiqué or captains log, is there going to be a S&P ever again or a Mongoose blog adding all the DD escorts then all the CL escorts etc so over the course of the year everyone gets the ships but evenly.
Which is why the notion of new ships has come up, otherwise pretty rapidly there'll be no new Feds, Klingons or Romulans, and the gaming masses just won't care as much, or buy as much, of the SFU races added by ADB. The big three will be substantially more popular than everything else, so new releases for them are needed to grow the game beyond the first couple of supplements.
I'd love to see the early years ships for instance, and since the D4 has no existing miniature it can look like a D6, but have some interesting differences, as well as being smaller.
I'd love to see the early years ships for instance, and since the D4 has no existing miniature it can look like a D6, but have some interesting differences, as well as being smaller.
Da Boss said:
You won't.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Ben2 said:
B5 supplements always has stuff for every race. Except one notable exception which ended up causing a big stink.
Still, I'd love to know how many ships they sold for the Abbai Matriarchy.
I know I have seen Mr. Cole type that it was only worth resculpting ships if their name started with Federation or maybe Klingon.
And for that matter, how many of the SS memorabilia dice tins the Flames of War guys sell. Maybe a lot of people would like Klingon themed dice!
I know I have seen Mr. Cole type that it was only worth resculpting ships if their name started with Federation or maybe Klingon.
And for that matter, how many of the SS memorabilia dice tins the Flames of War guys sell. Maybe a lot of people would like Klingon themed dice!
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