Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Is it the Omega-X, though? 
New Beam rules.
- Thread starter Stonehorse
- Start date
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:Is it the Omega-X, though?
nope........ EAS Alexander, EAS Agamemnon etc
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Either there are variant weapons fits we don't know about or the inconsistency is down to CGI cock-ups... which we know happened quite often, sadly.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:
yup plenty of CGI cock-ups and hyperions have lasers as a consequence...
But a cock-up is usually one episode, not repeated over two or three
I'm of the firm belief that Omega weapons are dual function capable of burst and beam fire
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Well logically that would make them Laser Pulse arrays then surely?
But seriously when the hell do we see the Alexander OR the Agamemnon firing beams from Anywhere other than what is basically the main lasers? Just because they fire at odd angles doesnt mean they should have other beams. Maybe an arugment for the main lasers to be non-boresight but minibeam secondaries? No thanks.
Im not saying it would be overpowered or anything Im just saying that I dont think it would really feel right somehow.
But seriously when the hell do we see the Alexander OR the Agamemnon firing beams from Anywhere other than what is basically the main lasers? Just because they fire at odd angles doesnt mean they should have other beams. Maybe an arugment for the main lasers to be non-boresight but minibeam secondaries? No thanks.
Im not saying it would be overpowered or anything Im just saying that I dont think it would really feel right somehow.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Locutus9956 said:
Then Omegas would be all Laser/Pulse arrays
as soon as the pics upload to my photobucket.....
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
pictures do not lie.......
The Alexander firing
A clarkist ship hit by the Alexander, next shot in that scene shows the Alexander to be parallel
The Agamemnon, either those aft beams have moved forward and have one hell of a firing arc or these are side turrets
The Alexander firing
A clarkist ship hit by the Alexander, next shot in that scene shows the Alexander to be parallel
The Agamemnon, either those aft beams have moved forward and have one hell of a firing arc or these are side turrets
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Touche salesman 
But as I said I still just dont see particle beams being powerful enough to justify the new minibeam rule. Still I guess Ill see how they play before going nuts about it
A possibility that occurs to me though is giving them one set of PBeams turreted rather than seperate sets in each arc. Basically my worry is that were going to get a superomega that can beat the hell out of a primus or a Tinashi one on one and that just wouldnt feel right to me (and thats coming from a predominately EA player)
But as I said I still just dont see particle beams being powerful enough to justify the new minibeam rule. Still I guess Ill see how they play before going nuts about it
A possibility that occurs to me though is giving them one set of PBeams turreted rather than seperate sets in each arc. Basically my worry is that were going to get a superomega that can beat the hell out of a primus or a Tinashi one on one and that just wouldnt feel right to me (and thats coming from a predominately EA player
)emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Locutus9956 said:Touche salesman
But as I said I still just dont see particle beams being powerful enough to justify the new minibeam rule. Still I guess Ill see how they play before going nuts about it
they're not particle beams, just a small fraction of the laser capacitor power
Iain McGhee
Mongoose
emperorpenguin said:
Most tech data I've read on the Omega says that the dorsal and ventral turrets are combined pulse/particle weapons, with the beams being intended for AF fire (treated as a seperate weapon in ACTA). If you treat mini-beam as a weapon trait rather than as a weapon type it fits.
Locutus9956 said:
I was with you 100% when the playtesters first brought this up. Then they gave me time stamps of certain episodes and, well, 'bugger me', I thought. They're right!
Without a shadow of a doubt, Omegas do indeed have laser weapons to their flanks - though they are somewhat 'restricted'.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
msprange said:Locutus9956 said:
I was with you 100% when the playtesters first brought this up. Then they gave me time stamps of certain episodes and, well, 'bugger me', I thought. They're right!
Without a shadow of a doubt, Omegas do indeed have laser weapons to their flanks - though they are somewhat 'restricted'.
The problem though, Matt, as I see it is not that the Omega does or doesnt have laser weapons aside from the main batteries its more a case of whether theyre REALLY potent enough to justify effectively ingnoring target armour?
I dont mind the new beam and minibeam rules but I was kind of hoping they wouldnt be just applied to ANYTHING that has beamy characteristics on the show or else sooner or later you end up with a state where hull value is pretty much irrelevant. I wouldnt hesitate, given those screenshots and episode references now to give Omegas minibeams with the CURRENT minibeam rules but the now ones are going to be ALOT more effective!. Still I'm not a playtester and have only seen little bits and pieces of the work in progress so I'll wait and see the finished product before I judge it too harshly....
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
they don't have many ADs on them for one thing
and beams don't dominate because as you know they are less effective vs hull 4 and 5, they can't use CAF! anymore either
I find myself using the non-beams way more now!
Though I would, I play Centauri....
and beams don't dominate because as you know they are less effective vs hull 4 and 5, they can't use CAF! anymore either
I find myself using the non-beams way more now!
Though I would, I play Centauri....
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Iain McGhee said:
If you watch the show however you see that any time the side turrets fire at fighters they fire little pulses of white energy, more like a pulse cannon than a beam.
Iain McGhee
Mongoose
True. That's what I meant as them using the trait, in that they can be used as longer-ranged (4") AF weapons, rather than the point-blank AF dice pool that seems to be coming in V2.0, rather than them actually being beams. Rapid-fire pulses or the like.
Just thinking about the new beam rules, does that mean that Drakh will need re-tooling as their main weakness against many fleets is their vulnerability to beams due to their low hull. With beams dramatically less effective against them is it time how will they be balanced? With the new beam rules (unless ships get more dice) against SAP beams (which are the majority of beams anyway) they will get a hell of a lot less hits against them.
More I think of it more I really nervous about the new beam rules as unless they get more dice you're going to be making beams much less effective against everything bar hull 6 ships. This makes it harder to hurt Vorlons, Drakh, most Minbari all of which are races that have pretty good alternative defences anyway, not to mention most Raid or lower ships, It will make most beams much less useful especially against afore mentioned fleets.
Personally I like the rules as they are and think the mechanic works about right. In terms of fluff by weakening them you’re unlikely to see them taking out any ship in one shot which at least now they can do now on lower hull ships.
These changes also make skirmish ships better again as they’ll be as easy targets as main battle ships in terms of the damage you can inflict on them with beams.
The balance issues for this change are pretty big and I would imagine would require re-evaluating a heck of a lot of ships and rules, I know that’s what 2E’s for, but when a playtester says he’s not going to use beams so much I don’t find it too encouraging. Although I suppose at least the Centauri have managed to keep ahead of the curve and moved to standard weapons instead ; )
More I think of it more I really nervous about the new beam rules as unless they get more dice you're going to be making beams much less effective against everything bar hull 6 ships. This makes it harder to hurt Vorlons, Drakh, most Minbari all of which are races that have pretty good alternative defences anyway, not to mention most Raid or lower ships, It will make most beams much less useful especially against afore mentioned fleets.
Personally I like the rules as they are and think the mechanic works about right. In terms of fluff by weakening them you’re unlikely to see them taking out any ship in one shot which at least now they can do now on lower hull ships.
These changes also make skirmish ships better again as they’ll be as easy targets as main battle ships in terms of the damage you can inflict on them with beams.
The balance issues for this change are pretty big and I would imagine would require re-evaluating a heck of a lot of ships and rules, I know that’s what 2E’s for, but when a playtester says he’s not going to use beams so much I don’t find it too encouraging. Although I suppose at least the Centauri have managed to keep ahead of the curve and moved to standard weapons instead ; )
