New Beam rules.

[Davesaint]

I just cant wait to field 6 Haltonas in a squadron. 36 AD of Beam, DD, Slow Loading hitting on a 4+. I'm sorry Mr. Adira did I just get 36 hits on you doing 72 and 72 with 6 Criticals? I'm terribly sorry about that. I know with the old rules I would have only done 12 and 12 with 1 critical, but that's not how things work these days. :roll:


Dave

 

[H]

did you factor in the geg ;-)

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I understand your concerns, i do, but I Like the new change, so if it was ditched, then I would be unhappy, whilst you were happy :-(
saldy whatever they do won't please everyone. Fancy a Vassal game some time and we can try it out? might change both our opinions!

If I ever get it installed again... :wink:

The laws of physics may well be immutable but thats not to say we've got it right at the moment, can you REALLY say that in 200 years time we wont have discovered some massive revolution in science that overturns some or all of those laws? What about alient technology, the Minbari in game are supposed to be over 1000 years ahead of use scientifically. The Vorlons and Shadows are MILLIONS of years ahead of us. How can you possibly presume that what we understand as the laws of physics apply in any way shape or form? That's the thing with science, its an evolving process, much of what we now 'know' will in time turn out to be, at least partially wrong

The laws of physics are laws because weve proved them correct. We know for a fact that anything marked as a "law" is correct. Anything not yet proved completely is a "theory." As Mr. Scott was often heard to remark in Star Trek, "ye canna change the laws of physics." You might be able to find ways around them, though.

 

[H]

I understand your concerns, i do, but I Like the new change, so if it was ditched, then I would be unhappy, whilst you were happy :-(
saldy whatever they do won't please everyone. Fancy a Vassal game some time and we can try it out? might change both our opinions!

If I ever get it installed again... :wink:

The laws of physics may well be immutable but thats not to say we've got it right at the moment, can you REALLY say that in 200 years time we wont have discovered some massive revolution in science that overturns some or all of those laws? What about alient technology, the Minbari in game are supposed to be over 1000 years ahead of use scientifically. The Vorlons and Shadows are MILLIONS of years ahead of us. How can you possibly presume that what we understand as the laws of physics apply in any way shape or form? That's the thing with science, its an evolving process, much of what we now 'know' will in time turn out to be, at least partially wrong

The laws of physics are laws because weve proved them correct. We know for a fact that anything marked as a "law" is correct. Anything not yet proved completely is a "theory." As Mr. Scott was often heard to remark in Star Trek, "ye canna change the laws of physics." You might be able to find ways around them, though.

yeah, but the thing about physics, is, well, physics suck, physics tells us a bumblebee can't fly!

 

[Locutus9956]

Scientific method is not about abosolute proof. You cannot with 100% certaintly prove anything to be true.

Lets take a pretty basic example, gravity:

Porve gravity attacts. Go on I dare you. Prove this is ALWAYS the case under all circumstances anywhere in the universe. You can't no matter how many times something reacts the same way experimentally you cannot prove that there is no cicumstance where it would react differently.

Science is about putting forward the best theory possible to explain things and then trying to DISPROVE that theory. The harder it is to disprove it the closer were probably getting to knowing how it actually works, but thats not saying we cant still be wrong in the long run. Anything marked as a 'Law' is PROBABLY correct to the best of our understanding and these thing are ASSUMED to be correct for the purposes of other theories but the Laws of physics are NOT imutable and to assume so is a mistake that leads to scientific stagnation

But anyway, we're getting WAY off topic here now back to discussing... erm... whatever this thread was about originally

 

[cordas]

The laws of physics are laws because weve proved them correct. We know for a fact that anything marked as a "law" is correct. Anything not yet proved completely is a "theory." As Mr. Scott was often heard to remark in Star Trek, "ye canna change the laws of physics." You might be able to find ways around them, though.

My bold and underline for emphasis, oh and the laws of physics have been re-written a number of times since Isaac Newton 1st laid them down... Einstien did probably the most re-writting that agreed with a lot of what Newton said but in some key areas did make a fair few very important changes.

Since the time of Einstien we have moved into Quantum Mechanics, an area that we are just beging to understand that exists and are a LONG LONG way from even starting understand how it actually works.... As has been said by most Quantum Physicists I have heard speak on the matter... If you think you understand QM then you have got it wrong.

 

[Burger]

The laws of physics are laws because weve proved them correct. We know for a fact that anything marked as a "law" is correct. Anything not yet proved completely is a "theory." As Mr. Scott was often heard to remark in Star Trek, "ye canna change the laws of physics." You might be able to find ways around them, though.

The laws of physics do change quite a bit, though. What were the "laws" before Einstein? What were the "laws" last century? What were the "laws" in Archimedes' time?

Has the universe changed? No. But our understanding of it has. And there is no reason to believe that it won't change in the next 5, 50 or 500 years.

 

[Tredrick]

yeah, but the thing about physics, is, well, physics suck, physics tells us a bumblebee can't fly!

Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[emperorpenguin]

. Armour therefore is only effective against lesser weapons, such as ion cannons and railguns.

How dare you! :shock: Ion cannons = lesser weapons!

 

[Da Boss]

well they are effected by armour and interceptors - so less than beams!

 

[Davesaint]

did you factor in the geg ;-)

No, but the criticals should manage to cover that as it's only a GEG 3


Dave

 

[emperorpenguin]

well they are effected by armour and interceptors - so less than beams!

but centauri prefer them to beams, so they can't be lesser! :lol:

 

[Da Boss]

yes but Centauri beams are better - cos they are Centauri and beams!

 

[cordas]

So a Minbari scout is next to useless, unless playing other Minbari or shooting at other scouts with stealth? Oh and for JP bombing.

Huh, other races other than just the Minbari get access to ships with stealth. Also they do this nice other not so little thing.... they allow for any 1 weapon system to be re-rolled by any ship shooting at the target.... I hardly call that a useless ability.....

Yes I know you can get the same advantage from Concentrate all Firepower, but CAF does have some disadvantages, no turns, no other SAs oh and you can only target 1 ship, which can be a real pain when you can have multipul arc fire available to you.

 

[Methos5000]

Plus from what I read about the Minbari scout is it appears to be gaining the advanced scout trait AND can completely strip the stealth off of an enemy ship. Say goodbye to your scouts against the Minbari now.

 

[MongooseMatt]

The armoured ship should be better protected than the unarmoured one, no matter what weapon is being pointed at it...

The type of weapon very much has an effect on how armour works. What we are saying is that Beam weapons are so powerful (subject to AD) that they are potentially capable of slicing through anything with little trouble.

Kinda like what you see on the screen in B5. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

Not to seem pessimistic, but lets see how long 2e lasts before the first call for broken ships is...

I would be fairly confident that it happens before the first game is played. What occurs after that is what will be important. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

But the Drakh rely on beams for their own armament as well --- the changes affect our output as well as our input!

No wonder they're going to be balanced last.

Actually, they are being balanced towards the end because they are at the back of the fleet book. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

one way to view it is that the beams are powerful enoughto slice through anything, it doesn't matter what their armour is, they go through Titanium as easily as they go through cheese. Armour therefore is only effective against lesser weapons, such as ion cannons and railguns.

Have a coconut!

 

[MongooseMatt]

So a Minbari scout is next to useless, unless playing other Minbari or shooting at other scouts with stealth? Oh and for JP bombing.

For heaven's sake Burger! We aren't stupid

The Leshath will have something very special that will make it attractive for Minbari players. In fact, it could have a very exciting role on the battlefield. . .