something else, you can't always assume that you can land on planet in a couple hours. Depending on what direction you jump in from, and where the destination planet and sun are in relation to your origin, you might fall within the 100D jump "shadow" of your sun, forcing a long (week) in-system journey. Saw this explained in GT: Far Trader, looks like on average it might happen as much as 25% of the time.
New 100 ton Free Trader
- Thread starter DFW
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GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
While I'm not one to jump on G:T books for solid "official" info, they are good and in this case it's quite on the money. Much depends on where the target planet is in the solar system and where you come out. Now with extremely detailed and accurate stellar and system data you can plot to come out very close to the target planet, at least significantly closer than what might otherwise be thought possible.
One of the problems here is that Traveller presents the universe as a totally '2-D' model. While Solar Systems each have their own plane of the ecliptic (PoE), Traveller acts as if there is a 'Galactic Plane of the Ecliptic' and the PoE for each system rests on that galactic PoE. No distance vertically. This creates a situation of thinking of always coming into a system from "the sides" traveling a flat route.
It's like printing out on pieces of paper 'top-down' views of a bunch of star systems, saying the surface of your dining room table is the "Galactic PoE" and then putting the print outs flat on the table top. Why go "up" or "down" from that plane when crossing between systems? makes no sense right?
I've done the mapping for my setting where very few system PoE's are on the Galactic PoE. Pretty much everything is above or below the Galatic PoE and I've modified the Traveller system notation layout to include distance above/below the Galactic PoE.
It also means players have to do some math in order to properly figure distances, but that's half the fun (basic math, I help them). But I have a setting that is three dimensional yet laid out on traditional sub-sector and sector hex grids.
I'd get it published but the thinking is "settings" aren't selling much anymore. mmmm Maybe a S&P article.
One of the problems here is that Traveller presents the universe as a totally '2-D' model. While Solar Systems each have their own plane of the ecliptic (PoE), Traveller acts as if there is a 'Galactic Plane of the Ecliptic' and the PoE for each system rests on that galactic PoE. No distance vertically. This creates a situation of thinking of always coming into a system from "the sides" traveling a flat route.
It's like printing out on pieces of paper 'top-down' views of a bunch of star systems, saying the surface of your dining room table is the "Galactic PoE" and then putting the print outs flat on the table top. Why go "up" or "down" from that plane when crossing between systems? makes no sense right?
I've done the mapping for my setting where very few system PoE's are on the Galactic PoE. Pretty much everything is above or below the Galatic PoE and I've modified the Traveller system notation layout to include distance above/below the Galactic PoE.
It also means players have to do some math in order to properly figure distances, but that's half the fun (basic math, I help them). But I have a setting that is three dimensional yet laid out on traditional sub-sector and sector hex grids.
I'd get it published but the thinking is "settings" aren't selling much anymore. mmmm Maybe a S&P article.
far-trader said:
I somewhat agree, but I'm not sure it was Merchant Prince that was broken, since a high Broker PC is possible under the core rules as well. Plus, MP didn't really change the core trading mechanic; it simply expanded it.
The broken aspect was the PC super-broker.
far-trader
Mongoose
apoc527 said:
MgT or CT?
In CT, nope, there was no PC Broker skill before MP. A maximum of Broker-4 was available through NPCs at a for hire cost. And only 1 roll per landing week for speculative cargo, not all the cargo available on world open for sale as speculative cargo.
About the flying a week to get on-world due to sun shadows and such, I figured a good Astrogation check would get past that, whilst a bad one would add more time to the journey. That is why we Astrogation check before each Jump.
I realise that solar systems are 3d "spheres" of space and as such is the Astrogator's job to plot a Jump Point exit that would be at the 100d from the target planet rather than a 100d point where the planet was a few months ago in its trajectory, for example, as such avoiding the lengthy trip (or very worst case, misjumping into a blank hex).
I realise that solar systems are 3d "spheres" of space and as such is the Astrogator's job to plot a Jump Point exit that would be at the 100d from the target planet rather than a 100d point where the planet was a few months ago in its trajectory, for example, as such avoiding the lengthy trip (or very worst case, misjumping into a blank hex).
far-trader said:
While technically accurate, your statement about CT Speculative Trade pre-Merchant Prince is not quite true. While there was no PC Broker-4 skill to turn the PC into a super-broker, a life of corruption or shuffling papers would get you a Bribery-4 or Administration-4 that provided exactly the same +4 bonus to the purchase and sale price rolls that Broker-4 does.
I would have to carfully re-read the rules to be sure, but I am not sure that the Bribery and Administration bonuses could not be combined in CT LBB2 - so stand back MP Super Broker and let a Master Sergeant show you how it is done!
far-trader
Mongoose
apoc527 said:
Yep, I loaded my PDF and checked that MgT has Broker in Core. More's the pity and shame that Mongoose didn't fix this then. In fact they made it worse with more adds and higher skill levels :roll:
I did note that the Broker career track specifically notes "on world" and that should be emphasized in my opinion. That it is only a skill that is useful when on ONE world. Travel beyond it and your Broker skill should be useless, at least until you are re-established on a new (SINGLE) world. And getting established will take time. Months, if not years for the higher skill levels to apply. Then how many players will want their character to have Broker skill
I got the idea you were talking CT from your post about playing The Traveller Adventure. Your experience tracks with what a lot of CT players also discovered though, decades ago. They could easily get filthy rich with the trade rules from MP then. And that it was a game killer.
I'm surprised the issue was never raised in playtesting MgT. Unless it was but not fixed, which is more what I suspect and the reason for my disappointment.
Good points. However, I think that Broker skill is more than just contacts and knowing the local markets. It also combines business knowledge, bargaining, and appraisal skills. I'd allow up to Broker-2 to be functional on most worlds, with higher levels allowed on any world with a functional Internet-enabled commodities market.
The big issue was the Harrier's 200 ton cargo hold. That sucker really multiplies success!
The big issue was the Harrier's 200 ton cargo hold. That sucker really multiplies success!
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
Ok, here is the entry for the skill "Broker" from the MGT Core Bookfar-trader said:I did note that the Broker career track specifically notes "on world" and that should be emphasized in my opinion. That it is only a skill that is useful when on ONE world. Travel beyond it and your Broker skill should be useless, at least until you are re-established on a new (SINGLE) world. And getting established will take time. Months, if not years for the higher skill levels to apply. Then how many players will want their character to have Broker skill
It isn't a 'knowledge(local)" or "Streetwise". It doesn't claim that the character knows all the local haunts, contacts, trading houses... just that the character can negotiate trades and arrange fair deals.
Finding those potential trades and deals are another matter entirely.
If you want to add in for unfamiliar culture? Raise the difficulty mod one step.
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
Actually, that's pretty silly logically.. part of What you know IS Who you know, but it's not all of What you know.DFW said:
Brokering trades is a 'binary' task... You have to have/make the contacts/have a way to make them AND you have to know how to turn those contacts into deals.
Unless the broker is trying to deal in illegal/contraband items there will be public registries, telephone directories, planetary or local 'internets' to search, people at the star port like the customs office (they better know about companies on the planet who ship in and out... it all goes through customs) etc.
I love how it seems 99.9% of people in 'the west' forget what I consider the hugest, biggest, factor in anything to do with information, knowledge, etc...
"You don't have to know everything, just know how and where to find everything." (why do you think I do so much posting of my sources? I know HOW to find things to back me up.)
GamerDude said:
Yes, it is available. However, the listing that that appeared at 08:00 for the Brock Co. that is selling 20 tons of e-widgets, well the top sales guy at Brock contacted his favourite broker at 07:30 and sealed the deal already...
That is how business is done 'Downtown', and, why the newly arrived Free Trader (with the Broker-4 guy) that just came into system and pulled the data from the net, didn't get the deal... Now if he stuck around the planet for quite a while, HE might be the one playing Zero-G golf with Brock's top salesman...
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
You make my point... there are two sides to the task. Contacts and Negotiating. (and applicable local laws on trading/insider trading/etc. which your example sounds a little like).
I'm not going to bat this around. Skill is skill IF you can make the contacts. Making the contacts is a difficulty modifier that drops with time.
I'm not going to bat this around. Skill is skill IF you can make the contacts. Making the contacts is a difficulty modifier that drops with time.
