New 100 ton Free Trader

[phavoc]

For the most part, I don't think the amount of time you would spend travelling to a gas giant for 'free' fuel would be worth it. Obviously it's going to vary between systems due to where you dock, but lets use Earth's system as an example.

The closest gas giant is Jupiter. At 1G I think it takes at least a week to get there, then you'll spend the time gathering your fuel, then processing it, and then you have to maneuver 100D away before you can jump.

Passengers won't like that, unless they are desperate to get off the planet or frozen. You still have your ship operation costs, such as wear and tear as well as other consumables and supplies.

Frankly the cost of filling your tanks with unrefined fuel locally has got to be much cheaper.

Anyone have the transit tables handy to calculate times?

 

[DFW]

For the most part, I don't think the amount of time you would spend travelling to a gas giant for 'free' fuel would be worth it. Obviously it's going to vary between systems due to where you dock, but lets use Earth's system as an example.

Yes, it REALLY depends on how close the GG is. Our solar system, according to latest data, seems to be the "odd man out". It would probably only make sense if the GG was also in the inner system (if that's where the main world is). Especially if you consider how cheap unrefined is.

 

[rust]

Frankly the cost of filling your tanks with unrefined fuel locally has got to be much cheaper.

Besides, out on the frontier there will probably be many colonies where
the people do not mind if a trader takes some sea water or melts some
ice. They will probably consider the permission to do this (if a permission
is required at all) as a friendly gesture that will encourage the trader to
make fair deals and to visit the planet more often.

 

[Chernobyl]

A lot of people forget about scooping water from a planet with sufficient hydrographics.

 

[AndrewW]

A lot of people forget about scooping water from a planet with sufficient hydrographics.

Not always an option. Even with those words that have open water they don't always allow refueling from this source.

 

[zero]

I did write a post here but thanks to less than dextrous fingers and a tiny laptop keyboard, I deleted it before I posted :?

Anyway, in a truncated version, I usually have in the two weeks I'm not in Jumpspace as the follows;

Day 1 (first 24 hours) - Land on planet from 100d entry point (usually 2-4 hours for my ship) and dump off cargo and gain new cargo. R&R. Take off to the local nearby GG.

Days 2-5, sometimes goes into 6 (Travel time to GG, as they are only needed for the route to be set, the Pilot/Astrogator can do other things whilst the ship auto-pilots)

Day 6 - One arrived at GG, spent finishing skimming GG, then travelling to 100d of GG whilst using the entire of Day 7 to refine before Jump at days end.

Bear in mind my crew only deals with mail and minor freight and one high passenger, two jumps with them a month covers everything, so there is no need looking for days on-world for the best speculative trade deals. The only trouble is landing on a world with this available, but probabilities are all in the Core so I can help the crew with a "Recommended Jump(s)".

Not the done thing, I know, although having more than one recommended planet to Jump to mostly takes away railroading and offers player choice, and also takes the stress of money out of the game, but when things do get bad I can throw them a bone in the shape of a Patron.

 

[DFW]

An interesting read regarding solar system planetary distribution:

"Some simulations result in planetary systems with terrestrial,
ice giant, and gas giant planets arranged in almost any imaginable distribution of orbits"
http://www.josephshoer.com/academic/files/exosystems.pdf

 

[rust]

Even in a standard system there are usually more worlds than the main
world and a gas giant, and at least some of them offer opportunities to
get free unrefined fuel. For example, in our system the polar ice caps of
Mars would be a far more obvious choice than the atmosphere of Jupiter.

 

[DFW]

Even in a standard system there are usually more worlds than the main
world and a gas giant, and at least some of them offer opportunities to
get free unrefined fuel. For example, in our system the polar ice caps of
Mars would be a far more obvious choice than the atmosphere of Jupiter.

Very true. If one is using the terrestrial planet gen system from MGT, a good % of these inner planets will have a decent hydro %... We don't need no steengking GG's. 8)

 

[Chernobyl]

I did write a post here but thanks to less than dextrous fingers and a tiny laptop keyboard, I deleted it before I posted :?

Anyway, in a truncated version, I usually have in the two weeks I'm not in Jumpspace as the follows;

Day 1 (first 24 hours) - Land on planet from 100d entry point (usually 2-4 hours for my ship) and dump off cargo and gain new cargo. R&R. Take off to the local nearby GG.

Days 2-5, sometimes goes into 6 (Travel time to GG, as they are only needed for the route to be set, the Pilot/Astrogator can do other things whilst the ship auto-pilots)

Day 6 - One arrived at GG, spent finishing skimming GG, then travelling to 100d of GG whilst using the entire of Day 7 to refine before Jump at days end.

Bear in mind my crew only deals with mail and minor freight and one high passenger, two jumps with them a month covers everything, so there is no need looking for days on-world for the best speculative trade deals. The only trouble is landing on a world with this available, but probabilities are all in the Core so I can help the crew with a "Recommended Jump(s)".

Not the done thing, I know, although having more than one recommended planet to Jump to mostly takes away railroading and offers player choice, and also takes the stress of money out of the game, but when things do get bad I can throw them a bone in the shape of a Patron.

For some reason, time required to find goods to haul varies widely (in MGT) depending on whether you are hauling freight, or speculatitive trading.

 

[zero]

^ I think its due to the time spent finding a Broker or some kind of contact/market.

Looking in the MGT Core, there is no minimum time stated to spend getting a freight to deliver. I generally have it that once the players have arrived through the Star/Low Port and made their delivery, they can then attain a new freight.

If they arrived at a planet from Jump at 9am, got on-world by 11am and then dealt with their freight (again the time it takes to offload and deliver is pretty speculative - lets say for argument's sake, one hour in this case), they would then at 12 eat lunch on-world but in their ship (why get on-world food and risk the runs when they got free life support rations onboard?), spend the rest of the day getting a new freight and in the morning take off for the GG.

I dont know how long it would take to off-load freight or find and pack a new one, but even if all those things took around 3-4 hours each for the three (off-loaad, find, pack), theres enough time for that, food and sleep and then off in the morning with little stress :wink:

 

[GamerDude]

Bear in mind my crew only deals with mail and minor freight and one high passenger, two jumps with them a month covers everything, so there is no need looking for days on-world for the best speculative trade deals. The only trouble is landing on a world with this available, but probabilities are all in the Core so I can help the crew with a "Recommended Jump(s)".

Not the done thing, I know, although having more than one recommended planet to Jump to mostly takes away railroading and offers player choice, and also takes the stress of money out of the game, but when things do get bad I can throw them a bone in the shape of a Patron.

For some reason, time required to find goods to haul varies widely (in MGT) depending on whether you are hauling freight, or speculative trading.

Oh Wow, only mail and minor freight, one passenger (on drugs). Except for what the passenger pays you better have some really good contracts for hauling stuff because generally that's low value cargo and usually used just as filler so capacity isn't wasted.

Companies like FedEx, UPS, DHL are moving sooo much cargo all the time they can afford to take all the little things too.

Unless you have a major transport concern going, where you are grabbing what you described and filling your ship to the max, you shouldn't be making big money. Without knowing your numbers I can't say if you should be breaking even - or not, but I would expect its difficult.

That's why speculative cargoes or contracts with good return for the job.

 

[rust]

^ I think its due to the time spent finding a Broker or some kind of contact/market.

A normal starport is most likely to have an information system where
the crew of the ship can look up which cargoes and passengers are
available and then contact the broker online to negotiate a price and
the details of the transfer. This should rarely take more than perhaps
an hour if the cargo is already at the starport or the passenger is on
stand by.

 

[DFW]

Oh Wow, only mail and minor freight, one passenger (on drugs). Except for what the passenger pays you better have some really good contracts for hauling stuff because generally that's low value cargo and usually used just as filler so capacity isn't wasted.

Look up the difference between "freight" and cargo" in Trav... You seem to have a misunderstanding of the system.

 

[far-trader]

FWIW to the discussion, your nice little 100ton trader DFW (long delayed kudos btw, I like small merchants) would probably have a quick turn-around in MTU which would help the bottom line (more trips) and permit fueling diversions (less time in port). I've long used two simple "fixes" that make things a little more dynamic and viable for beating the system. Note this applies only to free-traders, not contract merchants (whole different game)...

Part One: J2 will get you two rolls on the tables (doubling your potential pax and freight - does not affect speculative cargo, that still takes up to a full week to find a deal). J3 would get you 3 rolls and so on. See part two for how this helps.

Part Two: After I (the ref) gen all the available pax and freight for your filed destination I then split that up across the week (equally if I'm lazy, 1D6 if there's not much) by lots and individual pax. Those are the delivery days from landing (day 1). So it takes 2-7 days (the 1D6 plus 1 day) to peruse the entire trade opportunities. Change your filed destination and you start over from scratch. Wait beyond the 7th day and you start over from scratch. If you fill up sooner, or get tired of waiting you lift when you want, even early on day 2 before taking on any pax or freight. Sorry, no refund on the unused portion of the docking fee.

On the flip side I've also had tables where I rolled how long you had to wait for berth, which varied with the size of your ship, the capacity of the port, and how busy it is when you arrive. So you could end up waiting a week to land :twisted: (...unless you'd like to make a donation )

So your AA2 would probably find a couple lots of cargo and a passenger or two ready to go on day 2 on most worlds. If you're picky (or the dice are contrary) you might wait an extra day.

All that said though, the real reason for the week in port is for time to get roped into an adventure on the world. And the real reason for the week to get to the GG to refuel is to get roped into an adventure in space. The trade is (supposed to be) a secondary diversion. Generally to create the need for an "adventure" that will help pay the bills

Somewhere in the far past of CT I think it is stated (original Merchants LBB iirc) that only 1 in 10 small independent traders don't default on their ship payments. That's a lot of failed merchants, and a potential pool for pirates from merchants on the run with a skipped ship. I figure the 1 in 10 is usually the PC flavour, the ones who risk their lives in "adventures" to support their business ventures.

 

[DFW]

FWIW to the discussion, your nice little 100ton trader DFW (long delayed kudos btw, I like small merchants) would probably have a quick turn-around in MTU which would help the bottom line (more trips) and permit fueling diversions (less time in port). I've long used two simple "fixes" that make things a little more dynamic and viable for beating the system. Note this applies only to free-traders, not contract merchants (whole different game)...

Thanks &, good points. Forgot about the J-2 giving "double" the opportunity.

I figure that with enough ship shares (bring down the principle) the ship might be viable for a few PC's. But, really more for campaign flavor and additional encounter options.

 

[zero]

far-trader, your ideas on splitting the freights and passengers over a week is an excellent idea, I might end up using that for my games dependant on the amount of freight/passengers the crew can potentially find.

As for the numbers and accounts that Gamerdude mentions, well ship payments (mortgage and Life Support including monthly maintenance) minus crew ship shares comes up to 132,606 credits for the Stubby-class I created. I dont pay for refiined fuel, the crew skims GGs and refines it on the go.

A High Passenger for a J2 trip is 12,000 creds, Mail is 25,000 creds and I have 30 dtons left for minor freight which is 30,000 creds + 200 for the second parsec. Add together and multiply by 2 = 134,400 credits.

Thats a profit of 1,794 credits which will go towards Berthing at C-class or lower Starport worlds (min profit = 594 creds per month). Eventually enough creds can be saved up for items or the ability to berth on an A or B class world for a change.

 

[GamerDude]

Oh Wow, only mail and minor freight, one passenger (on drugs). Except for what the passenger pays you better have some really good contracts for hauling stuff because generally that's low value cargo and usually used just as filler so capacity isn't wasted.

Look up the difference between "freight" and cargo" in Trav... You seem to have a misunderstanding of the system.

You sure that's ME? Oh.. Freight is the CHARGE and cargo is the CRAP IN YOUR HOLD....is that it?

Mr. Galm has a number of unusual cargoes that he needs transported… discretely.
None of these cargoes are illegal, per se,
but they all require special handling and attention. Galm offers
standard freight costs, plus a bonus to cover unusual expenses.
Apply to Mr. Galm’s office in the DownPort if you have a ship or are
willing to personally escort these delicate cargos.

Although, the terms are a little muddied here. But still, freight is the "Charge and Process" while cargo is the "actual crap". The way it is used in the book definition, my usage is correct.

FREIGHT
Characters not wishing to risk speculative trade can go for the
safer option of shipping freight. Freight shipments pay Cr. 1,000
per ton for shipping a ton for one parsec, +200 Cr. per additional
parsec. Freight lots must be transported in their entirety, and come
in three sizes:
• Major cargos are composed of 1d6 10 tons of freight.
• Minor cargos are composed of 1d6 5 tons of freight.
• Incidental cargos are composed of 1d6 tons of freight.
To determine the number of cargos available, add the destination
planet’s Population value to the modifiers from the Freight Traffic
table, then consult the Freight Lots Available table.
A freight lot cannot be broken up. Cargo is paid for upon delivery,
assuming it is delivered on time. Failing to deliver cargo on time
reduces the amount paid by 1d6+4 10%

 

[apoc527]

This discussion is interesting to me. We played The Traveller Adventure and my PCs had NO trouble at all turning massive profits with the March Harrier using the rules in Merchant Prince. This had a lot to do with a final Broker DM of like +5 or +6 on the "fixer" PC due to high skill and high relevant characteristics.

It's hard to motivate PCs when they can generate capital to buy speculative cargo and then rake in the cash simply from world hopping.

It's quite possible that this largely was because of the aforementioned crazy high Broker DM achieved by that one player, but I don't know.

 

[far-trader]

This discussion is interesting to me. We played The Traveller Adventure and my PCs had NO trouble at all turning massive profits with the March Harrier using the rules in Merchant Prince. This had a lot to do with a final Broker DM of like +5 or +6 on the "fixer" PC due to high skill and high relevant characteristics.

Merchant Prince (CT) was badly broken. The worst idea was that a PC could be a Super-Broker while travelling vast distances. Instantly upon arriving at a new world, knowing the local market and traders, having the full trust and cooperation of same, and knowing who's playing straight in deals, and having them trust you. In classic terms "The old boy network."

B. R. O. K. E. N. x100

I can't imagine whatever possessed the writer of that idea that it would be good. It makes zero sense. And as you noted is a game killer.

Brokers should only be NPCs. Each limited to operating on a single world. And the higher DM Brokers will only be available in the larger markets (generally).

To whatever degree Mongoose blindly followed this pathway to darkness, shame on them. The evidence of just how wrong it was has been there for decades.

PC Brokers = Broken game

/rant