My Conan modification // Campaign thread

[Clovenhoof]

The characters are made, we're ready to start the campaign... maybe not this week due to lack of time, but certainly next week. So here I'd like to trawl for some ideas I might use.

First off, neither me nor any of my players are really REH-literate. So I am NOT using the standard Conan universe of the Hyborian age. Maybe it's going to be the same (our) world, but at a different time. {EDIT: The dice are cast. See page 2 for details on the world}
In essence, I want to create a much stranger, more primeval, less civilized atmosphere, with much fewer parallels to real world history and cultures.
For one, there will be NO civilized kingdoms. The whole world is going to be one huge wilderness, with some barbarian and nomad settlements mainly. The only civilized entity will be cities, with population numbers in the order of 10.000 people. These will be rather few and far between, like two to three weeks of travel (on foot) between most cities.
Many of these cities will be very "raw", with palisade walls and gate arcs of huge mammoth tusks, buildings of mud and wood, stuff like that. Only very few cities will be truly "civilized" with sophisticated stonework and suchlike.

Travelling in the wild is supposed to be pretty dangerous. Usually travellers will form caravans for this purpose to protect themselves from marauding hordes or worse (I'm still pondering the existence of some "orc" race to make things more dangerous).

Now for the campaign as such. The group is made up of a Barbarian (or two), a Borderer (which we call Hunter), a Bandit (Pirate) and a Thief (the only "urban" character), and only two players have any RP experience. I already have several ideas for the course of the game, but I haven't decided on an initial adventure yet. Not only to get the group together, but also to give the players a feel for the world.

For that reason, they are not going to start out in one of the fancy stone cities - it would be too normal for them as players. So it's going to be some remote settlement, probably one of the smaller "palisade and tusks" cities I mentioned above. I want to show them, for example, how slavery is perfectly normal there and that a human life is worth absolutely _nothing_ in this world (except a handful of silver). There may also be an arena for pit fighting with mortal kombat.

Anyway, I haven't decided yet how to bring them all together. I'd like it to be something really cool, getting them all excited about the world and eager to play more, but on the other hand it needs to be appropriate for first-levels.

In other setting, I like to have a merchant hire the players to protect his goods on the road from X to Y as initial adventure (the "common employer" scheme). That would doubtless be an option here as well, but I feel there would be so much better ways to show them the world.

Maybe rather about said pit fighting arena. Up to three of the chars could be forced to fight there (Bandit and Thief as punishment after getting caught, Boon just because). [as in historical arena fights, they would be to the death, but rest assured I'll fudge the rolls if necessary to avoid a first-level's untimely demise]
The other two wouldn't fit in there but, being more wilderness-oriented, may nonetheless help them with their getaway. Well it's not quite thought through yet.

So, I'm keen to hear some more suggestions for startup sessions. Bring it on. =)

 

[Aelric]

Well for starting them up you can use what I did which was slaver's caravan from the hyborian age site.It is a great 1st level starter with some great features.
http://hyboria.xoth.net/adventures/index.htm
Here is the link for you to check out.

 

[Auggie]

Sounds interesting. I look forward to hearing about this campaign as you and your players live, slay and die in it

 

[Clovenhoof]

Downloaded the Slaver's Caravan adventure now. Not too bad. Okay, it's exactly the kind of usual fare that I mentioned above ("hired to protect a caravan") but the twist isn't bad. I'm also trying to write up a scenario starting out with the pit fighting, but not sure if it's going to work out.
(I can't see the Borderer ending up in the Pits, so he's more likely to start out as audience, then maybe hired to help the others break out.)

 

[Krushnak]

you could have all the pc's already as slaves being taken to a town to fight in the pits or work a mine forcing them to work together to escape and survive. or you could have them as part of a slave raiding party set to pillage a few local villages before heading back to a larger town/city to sell off the slaves and loot.

as for an orc race simply use one the barbarian templates (pict or especially darfari) as your orcs. a friend and me are working on a hyborian like fantasy world to use the conan d20 rules and are planning on using the northern races (nordheimir, cimmerian) as the orc races. hyborian would be 'normal' humans with a few of the other races for archetypes and maybe zingarans, vhendhyans as the elves. dwarves would very likely be hyperboreans.

 

[Clovenhoof]

That's also an option.
Actually, the main reason I'm reluctant to do that is because the players spent so much time buying their equipment (even though I only gave them 30 Silver starting cash) and so that would all go to waste. But I may yet decide to do that. Right now I like the Arena idea best.

As for the "Orc" race, here are the pros and cons I can think of:
Pro: an aggressive, non-human race would make it abundantly clear to the players that these beings do not treat or parley. They are competing with the humans for dominance of the earth.
Con: in the real world, there are historical accounts describing eastern rider peoples like Huns or Awars almost exactly like Tolkien describes his Orcs. Like, swarthy, stooped, bestial, talking in an unhuman tongue etc. So it should be possible to establish such a threat using a human tribe as well.

The difference being that Huns etc. accepted tithes to buy peace, which a non-human Orc race should not. There are some such references in LOTR but these appear to be a feint of Sauron an certainly not the Orcs' idea. But I am pretty sure I don't want to have one supernatural evil overlord in this game.

In an early draft -- before I had the Conan game -- I also planned to introduce Elves in a rather unorthodox manner: their culture and cities having gone under, they now roam the world as equestrian nomad tribe. I could still decide to use them in my setting. The question would just be whether to make them "noble savages" and/or isolationist, or indeed barbaric and aggressive like a kind of mounted Picts.

Another reference that springs to mind would be the 13th Warrior book and movie. A foe that appears monstrous at first, but turns out to be humans in disguise later on.

 

[Krushnak]

yeah in my new game orcs are simply a hominid race descended more from a gorilla like ape than chimpanzee which makes them bigger and usually tougher/stronger than normal humans while having a more pronounced brow and jaw line aswell as giving them that distinctive pug nose and small tusks. both the elves and dwarves are also simply differently evolved hominids rather than some completely different 'magical' species. althougth most humans likely dont know this and with their extreme prejudices are likely to attack most dwarves and orcs on-sight, maybe not elves as they appear to be the most 'human' of the lot. this doesnt change the fact that all believe they had different creator gods and such just like real life human cultures.

i was also planning on including the pictish race as wild elves.

if you want them to keep their gear then yeah starting out as raiders or pit fighters is the way to go to not use the same old merchant guard idea, atleast for the start of the game.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Mhm, yes, something along those lines, concerning the non-human races.
My original draft was based on D&D 3.0 core rules, so there were all the core races but I basically made it impossible to play the slow movers - they'd just take too long to travel between cities.

Now, I'm using the Conan racial templates but with different backgrounds and some alterations, especially using different gods because most of the Conan gods sound cheesy. I'm going for something more archaic, like Leviathan and Tiamat etc.

For stats, the Wild Elves are going to be pretty much like Picts with some characteristics changed to an equestrian lifestyle, and Favoured Class: Nomad

However, most humans will visually resemble of Picts, extensive body and facial paint being "fashion".

By the way, I'm also making some changes to equipment and combat rules:

- No crossbows. This tech just doesn't fit in with the theme.
- changes to Sunder rules, roughly like this: whenever a weapon hits an object of equal hardness, both deal damage to each other (possibly using the ADDED strength modifiers of the combatants, playtesting necessary). You cannot destroy a sword with another sword without leaving so much as a nick in your own blade. It's a simple reality check really.
I am aware this will make the Sunder feats rather unpopular, but I can live with that. There are still plenty of other combat options, like Cleave, Disarm, Trip, you name it.

 

[Krushnak]

i like the sunder change, makes combat that bit more exciting especially if you use the optional parry rule where if your attack roll equals parry defence you treat it as a successful sunder against whatever they are using to parry. im gonna start playtesting this idea in my games. possibly have imp sunder mean that you only take the sunder to your own weapon when sundering something of greater hardness instead of just equal. although having the breaker feat means that you wouldnt worry about it all that much.

heres my changes to the conan races.

orcs: celtic/germanic style art and culture
cimmerian- hill/mountain orc. no changes.
nordheimir- tundra orc. change the +1 damage with swords to axes and remove wpn familiarity with war sword and wpn prof (martial)- broadsword is now battle axe.

dwarf: norse style culture and art and tech
hyperborean-dwarf. no wpn familiarity with greatsword and the adaptability is changed with +2 to a single craft skill and a +2 to resist any attempt to trip, overrun or bullrush them. they are short and sturdy.

elves:
vhendyans-'high elves'. no changes yet. ancient greek style culture and art
stygian- 'dark elves'. no changes yet.
pict- 'wild elves'. no changes yet.

troll:
southern islander/darfari- troll. probably have them count as large creatures and might not be a pc race. really gonna be the main 'villain' creature of the world being illiterate large man eating ape like humanoids who dont have a proper language to negotiate with but still know how to use primitive clubs and spears.

human:
so far all other race choices.

as for gods most of the ones howard uses are from real world religions such as ymir, ishtar, set and mitra(mithra). but seeing as you dont want it to parallel too much with the real world then new gods shouldnt be a problem ill be doing the same thing. if your using tiamat then i would suggest using ymir, surtur and the greek titans as the names of your gods.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Concerning Sunder (may be worth a separate thread), I'd rule that you _cannot_ sunder an object with a greater hardness than your weapon's. You can't scratch glass with your fingernail either.
But I see it's not that easy, especially when looking at hafted weapons like an axe. The head's edge will be as hard as a sword blade. The shaft as such will be wood, but may be reinforced with a sheet of metal again.
So when you use an axe to sunder something, you'd use 10 as hardness value, but when you attempt to sunder an axe you'd try to strike the shaft with a hardness of 5 or 7.

Gods: I think I will use some historical names for gods, but probably stick to the mesopotamian area. Like Tiamat, Shamash, Ishtar, Marduk etc.
Just like in Conan, these gods will be largely "silent", maybe granting some bonuses just like racial modifiers, but not actively intervening in the world. As opposed to evil deities, who are of lesser power but do interfere and corrupt wherever they can.

Magic: I'm thinking about introducing some healing magic. Sort of like that ritual seen in the Conan movie, but actually I'm thinking of something in the vein of the old german "Spells of Merseburg".

There is a great interpretation of these by the group Tanzwut, a song called "Auferstehung" (Resurrection). Translated to English:

Sprained bone, sprained limb, sprained blood
skin rises, marrow unites, blood rises, flesh rises on your bone
Flesh has died, flesh rises
What is broken, what is injured, what is crushed in your body
let it be joined, bones with marrow

 

[bjorntfh]

The sunder change is good, but what I'd instead recommend is to do it differently: compare the hardnesses of the two weapons (if unarmed... um... well, good luck with that.....) and if the opponent's weapon is of greater hardness than your own your opponent gets to damage your weapon as well as you damaging his. Also, if you fail to sunder an opponent's weapon they damage your weapon as well (if you're hitting a hafted weapon, it does 1d8 damage for the haft, rather than the full weapon damage.)

The reason I propose that is because I've broken a sword when practicing against a baseball bat. The sword was cheap steel (still hardness 10) versus a bat (hardness 5) yeah, the bat took a nice gouge out of it, but I was left with about 8" less blade. The other thing to note is that it is VERY easy to shear an average or lower quality blade, much harder to snap a solid bludgeon, this is mostly shown in the HP total of swords (they tend to be low, in spite of the hardness) but remember it's possible to do more damage to your own weapon than theirs if you hit the weapon wrong.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Well, the question is, do you want to handle Sunder realistically at all, or do you accept some degree of simplification to be able to make use of it.

In fact, I doubt you -or anyone - will be able to sunder a baseball bat with ANY sword, not even with a really expensive one for several thousand bucks. A really good sword might not have gotten damaged, but it still wouldn't have destroyed the bat. The reason is simple: a sword is not an axe. It is simply not made to cut wood, and stinks at this task.
Moreover, "sunder" as an intentional manoeuvre has no place in any realistic medieval combat style. Even wooden shields prove to be virtually indestructible in reality. Shafted weapons are much more likely to be displaced rather than sundered, even if attacked by the ideal weapon to cut a piece of wood: an axe.

In the Renaissance (that's after the middle ages) the Greatsword was used for some time to attack pikes, but even there I doubt that the pikes were broken in the process. Probably just displaced so the attackers could get to the pikemen.

And only much later, in the evolution of the rapier, an off-hand weapon known as sword-breaker developed, but that too could only work against very thin and narrow blades - like a rapier - and would probably do nothing against a broadsword.

So in essence, a sundered weapon is in 99% of all cases the result of an _accident_, not of an intentional manoeuvre. Thus, the most reasonable thing to do would be to scrap the Sunder feats altogether. But I'm still going to allow it, I'll just make clear to the players that they are as likely to destroy their own weapon in the process, so I predict it won't be a very popular feat to take.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Just returned from first gaming session with the new group (and first Conan session). It was great, considering I was the only one acquainted with D20 system at all.
So here's what happened:

A Thief, a (female) Pirate and a Pit Fighter found themselves locked up in the dungeon of an arena (guarded by two gaolers a lot like those seen in The Life of Brian... "He is dumb as a p-p-p-p-"). The city's laws combine the necessary with the pleasant, and so criminal convicts (like Pirates and Thieves) have to fight to the death in the arena, as a matinee before the real gladiator duels take place. No parole for the winners: they simply go back to their cells to fight another day, until one day they are out of luck. (I copied this system from the old Romans)

I used this setup for two reasons, one was of course to get the player characters together, and the other to introduce them to D20 combat. Each character had to fight one low-powered NPC on day one.

Pirate and Thief each had to fight a commoner, equipped with no armour and only a short sword which lay on the ground in the arena. After the fight, the winner had to put down his weapon and was escorted back to the cell by two armoured guards (Soldier 1 with scale corslet and battleaxe). The Fighter was equipped with a large shield and a short sword, and pitted against another gladiator with net and trident. They all survived their fights without a scratch.

I didn't have my D&D PHB with me so I had to ad-lib the mechanism, now I checked in the SRD and found that I wasn't too far off. It worked quite well.

The Pirate and Thief realized that this place was a deathtrap, since their initial hope for pardon after their first respective victories proved false. So at night in their cells, they agreed that they would work together to escape, if they ever had to duel each other.

They also tried to find another way of escaping, but although it was not impossible (I was prepared to allow several ways out), they gave up rather soon and waited for their duel.

Soon, the day had come, they were both led to the arena. Again, a short sword for each convict and no armour. They put up a mock fight and the Thief "killed" the girl (Bluff check). Then he laid down his weapon and the guards came to get him. As soon as they turned around (readied action), the Pirate grabbed the dropped short sword (still had hers in hand, too) and used her two surprise attacks to stab each guard in the back of their knees (I allowed her to execute two attacks in the surprise round because it was such a nice setup).
The Thief immediately attempted to disarm one of the guards (also readied action) and actually succeeded (not drawing an AoO because the guards were flat-footed, and getting lucky with the dice). The Pirate fought the other (armed) guard, while the disarmed guard tried to flee (drawing AoOs from both players, taking damage). The next round, both guards were down and out. The two gaolers followed suit. Our two heroes then quickly opened all cells to create additional confusion, and grabbed some gear from the weapon chamber. And so they all rushed out the dungeon's exit and disappeared in the crowded city streets.

End of Episode One.

Pirate and Thief received 725 XP each, both for the successfull fights and the well-laid plan. Pit Fighter got 500 XP because he didn't get as involved but put up a good arena fight. Question to the more experienced Conan GMs, do you think those rewards are fine, or should I have awarded more? The party will also be joined by another player who was absent today.

 

[emirikol]

This sounds really cool. If I may suggest...I created some maps of the "pre-hyborian" age empires and kingdoms. Many of them reached some kind of zenith and then there were these cataclysms that crumbled the empires and drove the races back into primitive status. You can read all about it in the CONAN RPG or the HYBORIAN TIMELINE TEXT on the Xoth site (link below).

You have an incredible starting point with your campaign concept because you can move forwards at your own pace and add things as you like.

Here are those maps BTW with the HYBORIAN TIMELINE TEXT from the excellent Xoth site: http://savefile.com/projects/1045469

We all look forward to hearing how it goes.

BTW, I'd start them out by avoiding "dungeon crawls" or "fetch" type adventures


jh

 

[Clovenhoof]

This sounds really cool. If I may suggest...I created some maps of the "pre-hyborian" age empires and kingdoms.

Concerning maps, I was thinking about doing the Earthdawn trick and simply taking our earth with just a few alterations. (When I first played ED I thought "strange, what does that map remind me of?" and only weeks later it dawned on me that it was basically centered around the Black Sea.) Well we'll see, currently I'm still improvising. I may also resort to the sources you linked, thanks for that.

You have an incredible starting point with your campaign concept because you can move forwards at your own pace and add things as you like.

Yup. ^^ That was also my line of thought.

We all look forward to hearing how it goes.

Last night we played again, it was fun but nothing really big happened. However, here goes:

The Fugitives (Lyana, Rimmon and Varg) first had to get out of sight. Varg decided to run down a door and enter a house, which was unfortunately occupied, so he had to run, pursued by a maddened housewife witha broom. The others literally bumped into a Hunter (Borderer, the fourth player) who was quickly convinced to sneak them out of the city in exchange for a short sword that the others had pinched from the arena arsenal. The problem was that the city guards were looking for the escapees, and the palisades surrounding the city were also manned with watches. After nightfall, the pit fighter, Varg, decided to set a house on fire as distraction (which everybody else thought pretty foolish), and promptly bumped into a patrol of four guards. One ran away to sound the fire alarm, and Varg also decided to take to his heels. Out of sheer luck (no fudged rolls) he took only one hit and got away. The guards ran after him but were ambushed by the rest of the party.
The combat quickly turned into a stalemate, since the guards were armed with Bills, so the unarmoured PCs respectfully stayed out of reach and attacked with ranged weapons, which however were not powerful enough to penetrate the guards' scale armour. Since the guards had taken damage in the surprise round, they decided to retreat. The PCs were wise enough not to pursue.
At least the ruckus caused by the fire created enough of a distraction so they could escape over the palisades.

The Hunter then led them away from the city, and after several hours of march, around midnight, they spotted a small campfire, which they cautiously approached. They tried to scout it out secretly, but when they got there it was abandoned, though some baggage was still there, suggesting the owner being nearby.
I had them roll MS checks on the approach, which weren't bad but were beaten fair and square by the camper, who decided to hide in the shadow and find out if they meant any harm.

They were hailed from the darkness, and with their response inspired enough confidence that the guy revealed himself, and introduced himself as Aries, completing the party. They shared bread, meat and salt, and that's when we called it a night.

XP awarded were enough to get Lyana and Rimmon to 2nd level, and the others will make it next time.

BTW, I'd start them out by avoiding "dungeon crawls" or "fetch" type adventures

Lol, yes I'm with you there. =) I know "Fetch" is extremely popular for lowlevels but I'm rather tired of it.
Anyway, they are now out in the wilds (but with two wilderness characters they should be okay), they are wanted by the closest city for theft, piracy, murder, breaking and entering, and now also arson, so they can't return there, and the next city is weeks away.

So, I think the logical thing would be that the ruler of the city will be extremely pissed off especially about the fire, and should send manhunters after them. I guess the next session the party will be busy either shaking off their pursuers or killing them. I plan on making that one hard enough to get them all to level 3 as reward (those that survive, that is).

And once they managed that... we'll see...

Player evaluation: first off, I acknowledge that they all are pretty cooperative -- none of that "why should my character stick with this stranger?" crap I've received from other groups. So they did not stall getting the party together.
Also, two of the players already have pen&paper experience and they don't cause any problems at all. The third is new to P&P and tries to compare everything to computer games like WoW or the Gothic series. It's not that bad though, you gotta give a noob some credit.

The other player, however, is giving me headaches. He is also all new to p&p, but what really annoys me about him that he keeps trying to tell me what happens. For example, when breaking into that house, he went like "No, the house is empty because the housewife is grocery shopping" -- and that's just one example, he did it _all the time_, until I finally snapped at him to knock it off, and not in a polite tone I'm afraid.
He is also the only player I did not know beforehand. He was just there on our first session, I don't even know who invited him into the group. I could still hit myself that I didn't put my foot down there and then by saying I didn't want a player who I don't know at all. Now I'm wondering if I should just kick him out by casting the 9th level GM spell Power Word: No. But I suppose I should first discuss it with the other players (and find out why he is IN the group in the first place).

 

[emirikol]

Player Evaluation:

If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure to email your FAVORITE players before your next game and have them help develop some WRITTEN table etiquette. Then on the next session, just go over them (say you forgot to do it on the first session).

You'd think it would go without saying..but....and don't worry about stepping on any toes. Only an immature jerk will be offended that you have some table etiquette standards.

We started doing that when any new player comes in. That way everybody knows what to expect and you don't have to play policeman.

Personally, I don't let anyone in my place that I haven't already screened and one of our TABLE ETIQUETTE is "Don't invite new people without permission."

Other things we list:
1. Don't dump your problems of the week on us. We don't care and we're not your psychologist. All we want to hear is "I'm ready to kick some Pictish butt!"
2. We don't stop the game for food. If you want to order, don't stop our game, we only have limited time. Better to order food before you arrive.
3. Don't argue with the DM unless you've already looked up the rule and have your finger sitting on it..and then PASS THE DM A NOTE. Respect your DM and he'll respect you.
4. (Important for conan games). Show some dignity WHEN your characters die. (Note there is no "if")
5. If you can't make it, call or email ahead of time. Nothing personal, but chronic missers will be replaced as necessary.
6. No player is allowed to tell another player what to do. (It seems there are a LOT of players out there who do this because they think another player is naieve).
7. Be mature.
etc.


jh





..

 

[Sutek]

Just read your Sunder modification idea, and I like it. You could have weapons deal damage toone another like that all the time (when the hardness is equal or higer than the weapon being used) and allow STR mod to be added when using the Sunder action, since Power Attack can affect that in a round. That would mean that stuff can break on its own, but it's more likely when you put some back into it...

Not sure if that works, so I'll have to check the mechanics, but off the top of my head I like the idea enough and will implement it in my games as well. :wink:

 

[Clovenhoof]

Keep in mind that in real life swordmanship, "parrying" does not mean clashing the blades against each other as in Highlander. The Conan book correctly describes the procedure as "deflecting" the blow (the German technical term is "versetzen" or displace), which may result in nicks and dents but won't break either weapon. So not every Parry attempt calls for a Sunder check.
In short, I'd just stick to having both weapons take Sunder damage only from Sunder attempts.

 

[Clovenhoof]

News from our campaign!
The campaign had been on hiatus for a very long time, because several players dropped out. Both more or less due to job reasons. As soon as we had found a replacement for one, that guy had a change in his private life and announced he'd move away. So... no Conan for over 4 months.

Now at last, we got found two new players, and they live only a few minutes down the road, very convenient. Two girls, so now our group is made up of two boys and three girls. (Though one of them plays a male character.)

So here is what happened the last couple of game sessions:

A young Thief called Venise had been captured and sold off as slave. She ended up many thousand miles east, half way to Khitan, where she was bought by a Khitan family operating a trading post. In her ploy to escape, it somehow _accidentally_ (*cough*) happened that the blame fell on a young member of the family, Li Jiang Zhi, a follower of the scholarly vocation. So young Zhi had no choice but fly as well, or the family would have had his butt. And they ran away together.

After several weeks (or months?) on the road, travelling with a Caravan, they arrived in the city of Gula Rog (the same city where the other SCs started out). There the caravan stopped. Since Venise wanted to get home, they hired a hunter as a guide to take them further west (30sp, half up front) a few days later.

Not before, however, breaking and entering into a merchant's house to steal some cash. There was an armed guard at the door, but she had managed to slip something in his drink earlier that night. So he fell asleep standing and she got in unnoticed. The merchant was in the first floor, sleeping in his bed, happily holding a metal box in his one hand. She swapped that with a wooden spice box, and abseiled out of the window...
...almost into the arms of a patrol. She barely managed to hide in a dark corner, and the guards, unsuspecting this night, did not notice her, or the rope dangling out of the window.

The booty was not half bad -- about half a pound of silver (120sp), which allowed them to complete their equipment and hire said guide.

...Sorry, need to interrupt here, I'm tired and am signing off now. Rest of the story tomorrow.

 

[Aholibamah]

It sounds like a fun and interesting setting--was I reading a post of yours on the REH forum? I'm impressed that you've gotten them into the game as much as you have when they are all Conan noobs, probably good player material too.