Mongoose and Me

[Dark Lord Skippy]

My .02 credits.

I have only 3 complaints about Mongoose. Other than these three complaints, I think they do an excellent job and have been pleased with their products.

1> I find it very unprofessional and sloppy that, as far as I've noticed, things rarely show up when promised. I continually see products listed with a release date that then gets bumped back, bumped back again and finally shows up late.

2> I tend to find a lot of editing troubles such as misspellings, artwork without labels or legends, incorrect tables of contents, etc.

3> Putting forward re-prints as "new material" and touting re-prints as "new releases" even though the re-printing is simply in a smaller format or a change of rules from when the material was printed by another company.

Now, to be fair, a LOT of gaming companies have the same problems....but making common mistakes, IMV, does not lessen their effect on my assessment of the work but rather points out why Mongoose would be well-served to be different.

 

[August1]

I will give Mongoose props for a really good gender split in 1,001 Characters. Capable women in the military? Awesome. Women crime bosses? Double awesome. Including a Matriarchy but not a Patriarchy? Not so awesome, but I'll buy the argument you can gender-flip (I would have liked to see it coded as both, in that case).

Hello, Matian!

I am glad to hear you enjoyed the book! I actually agree with you about the omission of the Patriarchy but it was honestly intentional. So many governments are patriarchies in their way that I didn't think characters needed to be dedicated to that topic when most of the male government entries already qualified.

Besides, with a plethora of fun government styles to portray, I had to cut something or they all wouldn't fit!

Thank you for gaming,
-August

 

[AKAmra]

My .02 credits.

I have only 3 complaints about Mongoose. Other than these three complaints, I think they do an excellent job and have been pleased with their products.

1> I find it very unprofessional and sloppy that, as far as I've noticed, things rarely show up when promised. I continually see products listed with a release date that then gets bumped back, bumped back again and finally shows up late.

2> I tend to find a lot of editing troubles such as misspellings, artwork without labels or legends, incorrect tables of contents, etc.

3> Putting forward re-prints as "new material" and touting re-prints as "new releases" even though the re-printing is simply in a smaller format or a change of rules from when the material was printed by another company.

This isn't just a response to Lord Dark Skippy. Points 1 & 2 are okay. Perfection is impossible (at least I've never seen it in any book I've ever read), Publishers should always try to improve in these areas.

I strongly disagree with point 3.

People WANTED LBB versions of the original books. Mongoose is giving a segment of their customers a product that they want, if your not part of that segment than don't buy it - it wasn't made for you. The LBBs are not misleading in any way. It's very clear that it's a reprint in a different format.

Republishing material that has already been covered "by another company" IS new material for MGT. MGT is its own game line, it isn't an add on for what's already been done "by another company".

 

[MongooseMatt]

Republishing material that has already been covered "by another company" IS new material for MGT. MGT is its own game line, it isn't an add on for what's already been done "by another company".

It is also worth pointing out that, sometimes, we have obligations to keep material X, Y or Z in print. The Paranoia Flashbacks books were an example of that (and will be again next year), as will the updated Traveller Adventure in 2011.

 

[Dark Lord Skippy]

I strongly disagree with point 3.

People WANTED LBB versions of the original books. Mongoose is giving a segment of their customers a product that they want, if your not part of that segment than don't buy it - it wasn't made for you. The LBBs are not misleading in any way. It's very clear that it's a reprint in a different format.

Republishing material that has already been covered "by another company" IS new material for MGT. MGT is its own game line, it isn't an add on for what's already been done "by another company".

I thought I made it fairly clear that this was my opinion, perhaps not. I'm not a part of that segment and I dont want those products. The fact that I dont want any of those things is not the complaint. I dont want any of the Paranoia books either and I'm certainly not complaining that they are producing these books for people who want them.

My complaint is that they do put these up as "new releases" when they are nothing of the sort. Its a niggling complaint, sure, as many people will already know the difference... but I do find it irritating.

OTOH, you are totally and completely wrong about some of the products simply "covering ground" that other companies have covered. My complaint isnt that Mongoose is going over topics already covered!

My complaint is that they are presenting books that are essentially re-prints of books published by another company (in this case, Avenger) (Crowded Hours and Sector Fleet). These are not new books at all, but re-prints of other books (and quite expensive I might add). Presenting these as "new products" is a lot more offensive to me personally (and may not be to you....again...I'm speaking for me and my opinion just in case you arent following along) than a lot of the other complaints.

This is not simply a case of covering similar material.

 

[rust]

My complaint is that they are presenting books that are essentially re-prints of books published by another company (in this case, Avenger) (Crowded Hours and Sector Fleet). These are not new books at all, but re-prints of other books ...

Well, put the blame on me and others who wanted Mongoose to re-pub-
lish these books after Avenger's Traveller license had ended. And since
the books are not purely re-prints (Crowded Hours is a collection of ad-
ventures previously published as separate books, Sector Fleet has been
modified to fit in with Mongoose Traveller), these are indeed new publica-
tions.

 

[BP]

... Paranoia Flashbacks books were an example of that (and will be again next year)...

Bery Punny :lol:

Just want to say - been following this and the Crowded Hours thread and am most impressed by the fact that Matt not only obviously reads the posts, but cordially responds, and, as demonstrated in the other topic thread, acts upon them as well.

No one can please everyone all the time, but I, for one, applaud Matt and Mongoose's exceptional commitment to customer satisfaction. First rate, in my book!

 

[AKAmra]

I strongly disagree with point 3.

People WANTED LBB versions of the original books. Mongoose is giving a segment of their customers a product that they want, if your not part of that segment than don't buy it - it wasn't made for you. The LBBs are not misleading in any way. It's very clear that it's a reprint in a different format.

Republishing material that has already been covered "by another company" IS new material for MGT. MGT is its own game line, it isn't an add on for what's already been done "by another company".

I thought I made it fairly clear that this was my opinion, perhaps not. I'm not a part of that segment and I dont want those products. The fact that I dont want any of those things is not the complaint. I dont want any of the Paranoia books either and I'm certainly not complaining that they are producing these books for people who want them.

My complaint is that they do put these up as "new releases" when they are nothing of the sort. Its a niggling complaint, sure, as many people will already know the difference... but I do find it irritating.

OTOH, you are totally and completely wrong about some of the products simply "covering ground" that other companies have covered. My complaint isnt that Mongoose is going over topics already covered!

My complaint is that they are presenting books that are essentially re-prints of books published by another company (in this case, Avenger) (Crowded Hours and Sector Fleet). These are not new books at all, but re-prints of other books (and quite expensive I might add). Presenting these as "new products" is a lot more offensive to me personally (and may not be to you....again...I'm speaking for me and my opinion just in case you arent following along) than a lot of the other complaints.

This is not simply a case of covering similar material.

I took it for granted that you were stating your opinion (which some others seem to share), my opinion strongly disagrees and I'm stating why.

I want MGT to "re-publish" quality material. First, so that it is in print. Second, so it is using MGT rules. I really like a lot of the Avenger/QLI stuff and would like to see a lot of it in print using the MGT rules. There's lots of Traveller material from other companies I'd like to see get the same treatment.

Since the bulk of the writing has already been done for these books, I'd be doubly pleased if Mongoose was to tweak them a bit and add some more pages; and it looks like they're doing that with the fleet book.

I don't think that Mongoose should bother putting a disclaimer on material that is reprinted. That could confuse customers that are starting with MGT. Most "Old Timers" will recognize it as an MGT version of an older product and can buy it or not.

 

[AKAmra]

Republishing material that has already been covered "by another company" IS new material for MGT. MGT is its own game line, it isn't an add on for what's already been done "by another company".

It is also worth pointing out that, sometimes, we have obligations to keep material X, Y or Z in print. The Paranoia Flashbacks books were an example of that (and will be again next year), as will the updated Traveller Adventure in 2011.

The Traveller Adventure is an excellent example of a "re-release" that should be done. I have the FFE CT CD and I still want this book. I want a real book using the MGT rules.

 

[ribby]

if moongoose is guilty of anything it that they dont seem to be able to finish off a rule set
the example that come to mind is the propesting rules in beltstrike adventure

 

[IanBruntlett]

The Traveller Adventure is an excellent example of a "re-release" that should be done. I have the FFE CT CD and I still want this book. I want a real book using the MGT rules.

What is "The Traveller Adventure"? Why should it be done?

TIA,


Ian

 

[nats]

Besides, from what I have seen so far there has only been one really serious blunder that was completely caused by Mongoose, the vehicle design system. All the other problems I have seen were either unimportant or caused by the printer, not the publisher.

I disagree. When they cant even ensure the Core Rule Book and CSC can coexist without major errata being applied to the weapons tables that shows a complete lack of coordination. My books are covered in errata And now they are releasing books with unreadable plans and maps etc - its just all so rushed. I believe in giving grief if people deserve it and Mongoose deserve it.

Am I glad someone is doing Traveller stuff - of course I am I am glad Traveller hasnt died. But Mongoose arent producing the stuff I want to see and what they are producing is unconsidered, uncoordinated with previous publications they have released themselves, its rushed and messy, and not very useful for gaming, or even all that interesting either. I live in hope that they will wise up and start producing some decent stuff but I for one am being very careful now about what I buy from them.

 

[MongooseMatt]

But Mongoose arent producing the stuff I want to see

So what do you want to see?

 

[phavoc]

So what do you want to see?

I don't mind reprints. Source material needs to hang around. But as was mentioned, what I want to see is well-edited material, with an effort to reduce errata. I want to see totally preventable mistakes (like the deckplans in the Core rulebook), or the mis-matched table of contents from High Guard.

I would like to see some common sense added to the changes that MGT makes to the rules. A 'frag' cannon that has a range of 10Km? C'mon, that's just silly. Sure, maybe if we are talking TL5, but even then they could shoot farther than that. Who came up with that??

I'd also like to see some higher quality illustrations. Some of the deckplans in the source books are completely silly in design. Vast open spaces in the ship - insert creativity here.... There's plenty of material available out there to design nice looking ships that fit the mission as well as the race/people that built them.

I'm sure some of us on the board would be happy to take up a collection and buy you guys a copy of Cosmographer so you can make better looking deckplans and maps. I expect that when I'm paying for source materials they are better than what I can draw with my own pencil and paper. Hell, hire some people as contractors to create your artwork if you can't do it in-house. There are some fantastic artists and illustrators on this board that I bet would be tickled pink to get published.

I dunno, maybe with the amount of errors and erratta that is creeping into the books you guys should think about publishing it in a binder, or at least give the people who actually like to kep their books in good shape and not mark them up or glue errata pages into them.

I really do hope you guys hear this Matt

 

[phavoc]

Can't be any different than spending two weeks in the Fulda Gap for your ARTEP.

But I never had a Sergeant ask me to update a manual. Now putting up/taking down camo netting, yeah, I got that a lot.

 

[steelbrok]

Am I showing my age if I admit to being on Keystone too (and Lionheart come to that!)

 

[AKAmra]

The Traveller Adventure is an excellent example of a "re-release" that should be done. I have the FFE CT CD and I still want this book. I want a real book using the MGT rules.

What is "The Traveller Adventure"? Why should it be done?

TIA,


Ian

"The Traveller Adventure for Classic Traveller.
This 8" x 11" softback book is more than just an adventure, it's a whole series of adventures making up an integrated campaign.

When the crew of the merchant vessel "March Harrier" befriends a wolf-like alien Vargr in the underground city of Leedor, they have no reason to suspect that they are beginning a quest for the secret of a jeweled alien ornament... a quest that will take them to an asteroid mining settlement, to frontier trading stations, and to dozens of exotic worlds. But the ornament is intended for more then mere decoration and the adventuring crew is soon marked by the extra-legal security apparatus of the giant Tukera Lines megacorporation. The crew and their Vargr companion need every skill at their disposal to discover the true secret of the ornament...

This book includes:

Spinward Marches map and overview.
Aramis Subsector Map and data.
Several Planetary maps with background information, encounter tables and area maps.
Deck plans of the "March Harrier" Subsidized Merchant.
Ship Directory of the different types of starships in operation in the Aramis subsector.
Extensive Library Data of new creatures and corporations.
Complete Vargr Character Generation unit."

The quote above is a blurb for the original Traveller Adventure - not the MGT version in the works.

The Traveller Adventure is a well-regarded campaign for Traveller. It's also a good compliment to the Spinward Marches book.

The Traveller core book + The Traveller Adventure also serves as a great intro to Traveller for group new to Traveller.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Traveller Adventure sounds great, though some of the MgT background material has already been published (e.g. in the vargr book).

So, when's the MgT version?

As I've said before, as a (relative) newbie I don't mind seeing some of the 3I material repackaged for MgT, though I know others don't agree ....

Egil

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Hmm, ring-binder and change-orders. Maybe Mongoose could add a "memory lane" kit with:

+ Chair, folding, canvas, oliv-drap
+ Table, folding, metal, oliv-drap
+ Mud, clinging
+ Coffee, warm, luke

Then I can feel just like REFORGER1987/Keystone when Master Seargeant "LookInDeBottle" decided the military manuals needed to be updated RIGHT NOW

Keystone 1987? Weren't military manuals scratched on fired clay back then?

Egil

 

[steelbrok]

We were still writing the manuals back then