Modern Runes

[Utgardloki]

I'm contemplating a game where I take the Iron Kingdoms 380 years into the future. For the Iron Kingdoms, I've already contemplated that they'd have a Gun rune and a Machinery rune. Now I am wondering what sorts of runes might be appropriate for a higher-tech setting, where they'd have automobiles and computers and even spacecraft.

I guess I would not want to go overboard with modern runes, but the following seem to be possibilities:

Atom represents nuclear energy and its applications, as well as magic involving the periodic table elements.

Radiation represents energy that is radiated from a source, including alpha, beta, and electromagnetic radiation, or even gravity waves and neutrinos.

Space represents conditions in outer space.

Motorcycle I am not sure about this rune, but if there is a Gun rune for the Gun Mages, might there also be a Motorcycle rune for Biker Mages?

Jetwing These would be devices special to this setting. They are jet packs with broad wings that people use to fly. My concept is that technology devices may have runes associated with them under certain circumstances. I think I'd limit it to three: guns, motorcycles, and jetwings.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I guess I would not want to go overboard with modern runes, but the following seem to be possibilities:

IMO Runes are/should be limited to the core concepts - so, for instance, I wouldn't have a "Gun" rune, because guns are already covered by the Death Rune, along with Swords, axes, bows and Troll Mauls

Atom represents nuclear energy and its applications, as well as magic involving the periodic table elements.

Radiation represents energy that is radiated from a source, including alpha, beta, and electromagnetic radiation, or even gravity waves and neutrinos.

I might be tempted to merge these into one Nuclear rune myself, but take "Gravity" out. "Gravity" is really an Earth Rune power, at least in "fantasy RQ" terms - I'm not sure it really justifies a Rune of it's own, though it might be a modified Earth Rune

Space represents conditions in outer space.

Sounds reasonable :wink:

Motorcycle I am not sure about this rune, but if there is a Gun rune for the Gun Mages, might there also be a Motorcycle rune for Biker Mages?

Jetwing These would be devices special to this setting. They are jet packs with broad wings that people use to fly. My concept is that technology devices may have runes associated with them under certain circumstances. I think I'd limit it to three: guns, motorcycles, and jetwings.

All part of a Transport rune? Then modify by one of the Form runes for more specifics
so Transport + Earth - Cars, Trucks and Motorbikes
Transport + Water - Boats, Jet Skis and Submarines
Transport + Air - Planes, Helicopters Gliders and Jetwings
Transport + Space - Spacecraft
Transport + Earth + Water - Hovercraft

SImilarly, I wouldn't have a Rune for Mechanics - The Metal Rune will suffice. However some sort of AI Rune to cover Computers is probably needed (Man + AI - Robots. Androids, Cyborgs et al) and possibly an Bio-Engineering Rune, depending on your setting

Just remember that Just because a Person/God/Cult/Grimoire/Data Chip has a particular Rune it doesn't automatically follow that they will have every possible power/Spell/program related to that rune

 

[soltakss]

I'd have a Machine Rune, to cover machines of all types.

So, Machine + Transport + Air = Plane but Beast + Transport + Air = Flying Beast of Burden (Giant Hawk etc). Machine + AI = Computer, Machine +Man + Ai = Android/Robot.

I'd stick with sub-Runes such as Gun because they add flavour to the game.

 

[Utgardloki]

In the official Iron Kingdoms setting (which is a D&D setting), Gun Mages and Mechika are important concepts in this setting. Thus, when converting this to Runequest, I decided to make Gun and Machinery runes.

Also, after discussions on the Iron Kingdoms forum, I decided that it should be possible to for humans to make runes (with the proper Make Rune legendary ability, of course). Thus, if a person wanted to make a Ferarri Rune, he could.

(Hmmmm, if that is the case, then there could be runes for certain brands like Ferarri. You wouldn't have a rune for just any company logo -- there's be no equivalent of a Boeing rune -- but where a company is so related with a specific product as to be a legend, such as Ferarri, it might be possible, if there is someone with the legendary ability could make a rune for it.)

(This particular setting would have a lot more special-purpose runes than an advanced Glorantha setting, where only the gods make runes and only out of primal concepts. OTOH, what is a primal concept? A gun could be considered a "death machine", or it could be considered a "dasein" extention of the gun mages hand, in a much more primal sense that a "Death Jack" would be. Death Jacks also exist in the Iron Kingdoms, and those would be activated by a combination of Death + Machine runes.)

 

[Utgardloki]

After taking a look at another runes thread, I thought it would be a good idea to put down some of the "setting rules" on how I see runes as working in my adaptation of the Iron Kingdoms.

(For this setting, I am considering that "sorcerers", "witches", "wizards", "druids", and "bards" all use runecasting, as do specialized arcane casters such as "gun mages" and "arcane mechanics".)

1. Sorcerers are born with one "favored" rune. A sorcerer can use her favored rune without having a rune representation present.

2. Casters with the Runecasting skill can make their own representation of runes they have mastered. Instead of "integrating" a rune, a caster has to master it either by being born with the instinct as a gift, by learning the rune from someone who has already mastered it, or by creating the rune with a "Make Rune" legendary ability.

3. There are certain special runes beyond the ability of mortals to make. These include the racial rune -- each race able to cast arcane magic has its own rune, and races without their own rune are not able to cast arcane magic --, the god runes -- each god has his own rune, which he can teach to his followers, or can be learned by rogues who want to live dangerously, since using a god's rune alerts the god that you are using his power.

4. Different races have different lists of runes that they are familiar with, although any race capable of arcane magic can learn any rune.

5. Runes represent a concept which exists in the mind of the person who makes the rune. This is why, in 600 A.R., humans did not have a "Male Principle" rune available to them, since the goddess Thamar, who gave humans the runes, did not give them this particular rune, and it was only after they were able to learn this rune from the elves that the rune became widely available to humans.

Instead of a jetwing rune, perhaps I'll just have a wing rune that became available when arcane mechanics developed the ability to make mechanical wings people could strap on to fly (wing + machinery ). Later, when jets were invented, the arcane mechanics made jetwings.

 

[Utgardloki]

Thinking about gravity and the runes, Duncan's point about gravity being a function of the Earth rune is a good point. I included gravity waves with the Radiation rune because of modern scientific theory that holds that gravity is a form of bosonic radiation like electromagnetic radiation. But modern science does not quite understand how this works, exactly, which would make it difficult to use the Radiation rune to control gravity.

I think that some effects can be achieved by more than one rune. The Earth rune could be used to make things heavier or lighter, if you knew the correct spells for this. I am thinking that as scientific knowledge progresses, the idea of gravity may become best expressed by a god-learner like Einstein in a special Gravity rune.

(I think god-learners have the ability to change runes. I am concentrating on settings like Runequest Modern and Runequest Iron Kingdoms where I am assuming mortals can invent runes.)

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I think that some effects can be achieved by more than one rune.

I agree - the way they achieve the effect would vary, and sometimes some Runes will be more effective or appropriate than others.
( A gloranthan example is the difference between solar levitation and storm flight - the latter is less useful if you want to hover...)

The Earth rune could be used to make things heavier or lighter, if you knew the correct spells for this. I am thinking that as scientific knowledge progresses, the idea of gravity may become best expressed by a god-learner like Einstein in a special Gravity rune.

(I think god-learners have the ability to change runes. I am concentrating on settings like Runequest Modern and Runequest Iron Kingdoms where I am assuming mortals can invent runes.)

Inventing a rune from scratch should be incredibly difficult. Real mega-Heroquest, World-changing stuff. What is more likely (and still pretty impressive) is refining an existing rune to create a modified rune (eg the Heat and Light runes that are modified Fire Runes).

 

[Utgardloki]

What do you think should happen when a guy like Einstein comes along, and completely changes the way we look at space and time and gravity and all that stuff.

(Actually, it was not just Einstein, but certainly over the 20th Century, the way of looking at the world has changed, and Einstein's theories are central to the new paradigm.)

Perhaps a guy like him does not set off to create new runes, but it happens as a result of scientific and philosophical advances.

 

[soltakss]

I always feel that such things are discovererd, not invented. Gravity existed before Newton or Einstein and so did the Gravity Rune. New theories allow for new ways to tap into the Rune and gain new powers/technology from it.

Have you thought of a Hyperspace Rune? In many games, Hyperspace is a potent thing and should deserve a Rune allowing travel, communication etc.

In Fantasy-Sci Fi settings, such as Star Wars, Babylon 5 and Dune you have a lot more scope to use Runes than in hard Sci-Fi settings that are more focussed on the technology. I can see people discovering new ways to tap into the powers of Runes and gaining new technology through them.

 

[Utgardloki]

I have not thought of a Hyperspace rune, but that is a very great idea. Thanks.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

What do you think should happen when a guy like Einstein comes along, and completely changes the way we look at space and time and gravity and all that stuff.

This is the world changing, major Heroquest type change I was alluding to.

As Simon says, most of these Runes are more likely "discovered" than truly invented (Although some technological concepts like AI or Nanotech probably are truly invented, even when they build on earlier work)

 

[Utgardloki]

It seems to me that runes are somehow tied to language. It is for this reason that for Iron Kingdoms I made the controversial decision to make a Woman rune without changing the Man rune. I thought about making a corresponding male principle rune, but what would I call it?

(A Japanese-style culture could have Yin and Yang runes, but Iron Kingdoms does not have a Japanese-style culture.)

So I decided that the elves might have a male principle rune, but the humans are largely unaware of it unless they either learn it from an elf, or manage to discover it by themselves.

There is the viewpoint that humanity never really invented anything. Everything we have, know about, or imagine is either a combination of existing elements, or is a discovery which was then combined with other elements. For example, a nuclear reactor is a combination of a steam turbine and a series of discoveries, many of them accidental, regarding strange properties of metals like uranium.

So perhaps the act of "creating" a rune, such as an AI rune, is really the act of discovering the concepts behind such a rune.

 

[simonh]

Space represents conditions in outer space.

Maybe a Vacuum Rune? But I think this is already covered by Void.

Motorcycle I am not sure about this rune, but if there is a Gun rune for the Gun Mages, might there also be a Motorcycle rune for Biker Mages?

How about a Liquidizer Rune for Culinary Mages, or a Sewing Machine Rune for Dressmagicians.

My concept is that technology devices may have runes associated with them under certain circumstances. I think I'd limit it to three: guns, motorcycles, and jetwings.

But that's only because you happen to think that motorcycles, Guns and Jetwings are cool. What if I think Monster Trucks are cool and want to play a Monster Truck Mage, why can't I? How about a Spaceship Mage, or a Mediscanner Mage? They're no more specific or special than Motorcycles. There doesn't seem to be any logic or consistency, just arbitrary personal preference.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Utgardloki]

My concept is that technology devices may have runes associated with them under certain circumstances. I think I'd limit it to three: guns, motorcycles, and jetwings.

But that's only because you happen to think that motorcycles, Guns and Jetwings are cool. What if I think Monster Trucks are cool and want to play a Monster Truck Mage, why can't I? How about a Spaceship Mage, or a Mediscanner Mage? They're no more specific or special than Motorcycles. There doesn't seem to be any logic or consistency, just arbitrary personal preference.

Simon Hibbs

I've been thinking of this.

If you want a Monster Truck rune, you will just have to take the create rune legendary ability and make one yourself. And make all the spells for that rune yourself using the create spell skill. If that's the way you want to spend your hero points, improvement rolls, and downtime, you can be a cool Monster Truck Mage 8)

I think I'll drop the jetwing rune. The fluff for Iron Kingdoms suggests that gun mages just appeared -- undoubtedly the gun rune was another part of the "Gift of Thamar", the goddess who gave humanity the ability to cast arcane magic. It makes sense that she'd create a motorcycle rune once motorcycles were invented. If you are familiar with her from the Iron Kingdoms literature, you can see how biker mages might fit in with her plans for world domination.

I believe I can control the madness by saying that very few mortals have the power and dedication to create their own runes. The hero point cost is very high, and you get more in bragging rights than you do in any sort of advantage over your opponents.

(Although the idea of high profile brand names as runes -- the "Atomic Kingdoms" equivalent of Coca-Cola and Ferrari, for example, not to mention Microsoft -- intrigues me. I might actually use a "brand name" rune.)

So yes, in a sense it is arbitrary personal preference, but I've worked it so the preference can be attributed to characters (including deities) of the setting. If there is someone who cares enough about sewing machines to make a sewing machine rune, so be it. But I do see that as likely to happen.

Create Rune Legendary Ability

Requirements: 90% Runecasting in at least three runes, 12 Hero Points.

Benefit: You can create (discover) a rune. You have to have a concept for this rune, and it takes 16 Hero Points for each rune you choose to create. You also have to create any spells applicable to the rune, according to TBD rules for creating spells.

 

[soltakss]

Runes in this context are a bit like a bastardisation of the Platonic Forms. Ideal Forms - the idea that there is a perfect form of everything "somewhere" and that mundane things are just imperfect copies of that perfect form.

So, a tree looks like a tree because it is a copy of the Tree Ideal Form. Computers are alike because they are all based on the Computer Ideal Form.

So, you can invent a Computer because there is already an Ideal Form of a Computer that people can tap into. That's why if people see a novel idea they sometimes think "Of course, it's obvious" it's only obvious because they have tapped into the Ideal Form.

For Future Worlds/Runes, the runes all exist as Ideal Forms. So, someone can invent a motorcyle because they have tapped into the Motorcycle Rune. Someone tapping into the Liquidiser Rune can make a liquidiser. Getting special powers or magic from the Liquidiser Rune is more difficult and would require someone to be a Liquidiser or a Liquidiser Mage.

Some Runes would be easier to access than others. A god/goddess who gives special Runes out to mankind/alienkind would teach them how to access some of the powers of the runes.

So, yes, there's nothing wrong with having a Liquidiser Rune or Liquidiser Mages. The only reasons why they aren't any are that the rune hasn't been given out/contacted or that nobody has bothered setting up a school to teach it.

 

[Utgardloki]

A couple more runes I thought of:

Pollution. This could play a big role with one of the Iron Kingdoms "gods" (Actually Lord Toruk is a dragon who appears to have enough power to be considered a god, so I consider him a god.)

Apocalypse. The thought of the pollution rune above reminded me of Terry Pratchett and Neil Gammon's story, Good Omens, in which Pollution was one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Each of the horsemen could have a rune: War, Famine, Plague, and Pestilence, or there could be one rune to rule them all. I suppose you could make an apocalypse from any quartet of bad things.

(Although even I am not crazy enough to suggest a People Covered With Fish rune. Well, maybe I am, but it requires a special kind of setting.)