Missile point defence

[kevinknight]

What is the logic behind only allowing missiles to be shot down on the turn they will impact? I don't see why a warship with 25000 multi warhead coming at it (nods to AnotherDilbert) would just sit there for 11 turns awaiting it's destruction. You can argue they are too small but I disagree. The sensors at the tech levels present in Traveller should have no problem locking on to a Salvo of missiles thousands of km away. Even if they can't, blindly shooting at 25000 incoming missiles will result in at least some interceptions...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Allowing PD at longer range would certainly help with Distant sniping with double salvoes.

Perhaps with a -1 DM for each round until the missiles arrive? That would make it possible, but not completely over the top.

 

[phavoc]

The missiles should (or would) be making evasive maneuvers. It doesn't take much to make an energy weapon miss at distance.

If you had a swarm of 25,000 missiles incoming your better defense would be to detonate nuclear warheads and have EMP disable the electronics. It would give you something to shoot at that couldn't shoot then down in return or use screens. If EMP can be used against a starship, it certainly should have a much better effect against a missile.

Countermissiles would be best suited to shoot down missiles at range.

 

[Nerhesi]

I would hope that in the travelers companion/optional rules there are options to cover the attacking of missiles at long range and with different direct fire weapons.
There wasn't really an appetite for this during this time around (there were several attempts to broach it).

I would, at the very least, allow missiles to be attacked at medium+ range with beam/pulse lasers with a -2 for size. I mean.. we're attacking 10 dton objects at those ranges. This is in addition to any range modifiers.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Missiles are tiny, very fast and very far away - the idea is that they do not present reasonable targets until they are right on you.

 

[Nerhesi]

I think unreasonable should be a "-X" not impossible

While a single missile isn't too big of a deal... The problem presents when we say a salvo of 100 or 1000 or 10000 missiles/torps is not a reasonable target

 

[arcador]

We have to be careful as this might break the balance if such thing is implemented.

A rule might be that such attacks can be made only if a salvo is above certain size. Of course, this too brings complications to the "meta".

 

[Nerhesi]

I think we're trying to ensure balance with this. Currently slightly lop-sided

Even if we allowed pulse/beam to attack missiles/torps at a penalty from range:

A) penalty would reduce missiles destroyed
B) range penalty would further reduce
C) you'd need long range advantage for beam to even use this
D) very long would only work with pulse and range increase

You'd basically be looking at perhaps 1 missile destroyed per hardpoint at range. Meaning minor effect on missiles, less so on torps, and zero effect on medium range launches (risk vs reward paradigm established).

Seem like a net positive to me

 

[phavoc]

The question still remains - what is the idea behind missile combat? Is it supposed to be where you just overwhelm your opponent and vaporize them in a single attack? Or are you expecting defenses to be more or less equal to the offense, and whoever is tactically more clever/has better luck on the rolls multiple times wins the duel? That means the expectation is your average ships anti-missile defense is expected to intercept 90% or more of a similiarly sized ship, and the leakers that hit won't cripple you, but they start taking their toll pretty quickly.

I still haven't figured out the idea behind it, so it's very hard to find a good balance.

 

[Sigtrygg]

And why doesn't the balance change as you go through the TLs?

Original HG did a very good job of changing the 'king of the battlefield' as you advanced through the TLs. At the low end of the TL scale fighters and missiles are quite effective. The advent of the nuclear damper and larger computer energy requirements at the mid TLs meant that fighters became useless in the line of battle and non-nuclear missiles are more effective than nukes, Spinals become really important at this TL range. At TL 15 small fusion power plants and reduced armour cost mean that the nature of the capital ship changes again.

The winning tactic in this set of rules at all TLs appears to be get as many missiles on target asap.

How about making the TL difference between missiles and PD have an affect on how many times you can use the PD vs salvo?

 

[Nerhesi]

I would very much like multiple competitive options at TLs, not one per TL.

Zhodani are TL14 using fighters, Aslan TL13 and same. Imperium tl15 battleships with Spinals and hiver tl15 Mass torps/missiles

Don't wan just one king of the hill per TL