New book Missile combat question/ tactic

[PsiTraveller]

SO I am looking at the newly published book, and it has the missile combat modifications that were discussed in the thread. I am looking at range bands and the tactics this can create. I was wondering if I got this correct?
I am also wondering how many turrets/missiles you need to get past the defence of a ship. It seems that at some point

Assume a 500 ton SDB with 4 triple turrets of missiles and 1 triple turret of beam lasers, TL 15 design (again I am using the Drinax campaign as the tech base) vs TL 12 defender ship
Long Range
Let's assume that the ships have closed to Long range and the SDB is attacking.
The Salvo will be 12 missiles.
1st round: Attack step the salvo is launched. 1 round to impact
Action Step: Enemy EW will roll (assume 7 for the roll, 2 for skill, 2 for Sensor bonus = 11) , Success with a 3 Effect, 3 missiles destroyed. (9 left in Salvo)

next round: Attack Step the missiles will attack, reaction from ship is to use Point Defence. Assume 2 turrets and they take out 3 missiles each (roll 7, skill 2, +2Dm for triple Turrets = 11 = Effect of 3)
Missiles attack because EW is in the Action phase so the missiles hit before a second round of EW. There are 3 missiles left.

attack roll is 7 + 15 minus Tech of defending ship (assume 12), so 15-12 is a 3, plus 3 for the missiles in the Salvo = 13, Effect of 5 (Is this right?)

Damage is 4D (assume 14 - Armour of ship (assume 8) =6 times 5 Effect = 30 points of damage per round of missile combat.

Medium Range
Same ships now at Medium Range
12 missiles launched, no EW since immediate attack and no Action phase.
Point Defence destroys 6 missiles as before. 6 missiles left
Attack roll is 7 + 3 for Tech, and 6 for Salvo number = 16 Effect 8
Damage is 14-6 times 8 for effect is 64 points of damage per Salvo. Is that right?
Also the Salvo will cause a critical hit because of the Effect 6 or greater and damage done, and if the ship is 600 tons or less a 10% Cumulative damage Critical as well.

Is all that right? any mistakes anywhere?
Effect is vital in reducing incoming rounds, and the higher tech your missiles the better it is for the damage Effect multiplier.

 

[Nerhesi]

Two things:

You mentioned 1 Triple turret - then you calculate for 2 turrets taking 3 missiles each... Minor mistake here? 1 Triple turret makes 1 roll, at a +2. So if you assume 7 is the roll, +2 for skill, +2 for triple turret, then 3 missiles total are removed. Total SIX (6) missiles remaining.

That leaves +6 for the salvo effect. +3 for the TL difference smart effect. So this is 2D+9 to the roll.

The second thing is I think a clear errata is required here to limit the Final effect to be equal to or less than remaining missiles. .
It is a little silly to have a a single missile hit with potentially the effect of a half dozen missiles. This is a simple way to limit the "ludicrous small salvo inconsistency here".

 

[PsiTraveller]

Yeah I calculated two turrets of defence for the Tl12 defender.

1 Turret would be the roll of 7 + 9(missiles), for an Effect of 8

As for the multiplier. Max damage for one missile is 24 (4D), so 2 missiles could do 48 points, 3 could do 72, if each missile was rolled individually. (minus armour on each of course, but still a lot of damage)
And if there were 4 small fighters with missile firm points from Close range the missiles would be rolled individually.

So we have to balance how much leeway we have in rolling once and letting that decide the damage for all the missiles. A lot of missiles could roll lousy damage or a few could max out and do huge amounts, so the Effect as a multiplier may even out in the long run.

Plus the Effect allows for the bonuses of the Tech and the design of the ship (allowing for a large salvo) to have some payoff. I keep mentioning the Honor Harrington series. They had big magazines and lots of tubes to throw missiles, then ended up going into the small ships on carriers route with fighter jocks.

I will have to play around with it. See how it shakes out. It does allow for a ship to get in close and chew up armour before EW gets rid of a lot of missiles. Point Defence and screens become important.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Another area where attack or defence could get a bonus is in the tech levels of opposing ships getting a bonus or a negative DM when performing EW. A Tech 15 ship fighting off TL 12 ship missile salvo may have an easier time spoofing the missiles. Contrariwise if a TL 12 ship is attacked by a TL 15 missile or ship the Tl 12 ship may have a tougher time getting past the advanced targeting capability of the ship.

This brings the tech of the ships into play the same way the attack roll does, but extends it to the EW roll. It would be a reason to spend double the money to get better targeting computers or missiles.
For that matter asking for a TL missile chart for costs may offer expanded opportunities for trade and role playing. The TL 7 of missiels is ignored in teh attack roll because the higher tech level of the ship is taken into account, but a higher tech missile might be faster, more resistant at EW, longer lasting etc. Instead all of that is handwaved away and the attacking ship TL is used. This saves a lot of time and energy and makes things simpler, but it seems to me something more might have been done.

The military countermeasures suite is the same for any tech level computer it is attached to, it adds +6 to all EW checks. It becomes a vital thing to have if you are going to be getting into missile combat. You work to find the space, money and power to fit it into your ship. Even tramp traders will want one because it offers the best means of defeating a salvo. (On an average 2D roll of 7 the suite would a: allow a success of 13 and and Effect of 5, removing 5 missiles from a salvo.) This would cost over 100 000 Credits for the attack in lost missiles every turn. That can get expensive for a pirate trying to overwhelm a defender.

And while missiles can be tracked incoming and spoofed with EW systems, they cannot be targeted by lasers. This begs for the creation of EW missiles that head out towards the missile salvo and act as a second set of jammers or intentional targets. A success might sucker a few more missiles into attacking the spoofing missiles and remove them from the salvo. Think of it as a Sandcaster type of missile.

The next option is a Patriot missile that will explode in the path of the incoming salvo in an attempt to destroy some or all of the incoming salvo.

This would offer more options for defence, force more choices on the players (do they load defensive weapons into one turret and give up the offensive capability but increase their survivability?) Or do they go all out on attack and load in attacking missiles only.

I am trying to come up with more bonuses for the defence.

 

[Nerhesi]

Do you think we need more defensive bonuses though Psi?

Positive DM: # of missiles in volley

negative DM(s):
Evade software
Pilot evasion
Range at launch

Either-way DM:
TL level difference

I don't know... it seems for all volleys 12 or under that missiles are pretty balanced.

A decent pilot will gurantee a -6, not including PD and EW.

When we hit the 2000 missile problem, then the picket ships, and massed trip turrets of hg will put up a fine defense.

I'm trying more "arena" style tests tonight. Build ships, fight em, analyze results with my crew of 6 folks.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Does the range at launch affect missiles? They do not roll the attack roll until they reach the target. By the time they get to the ship they are at the ship so no range negative.
For that matter, do missiles launched from Bays get the negative DM for attacking ships smaller than a certain tonnage?
For beam weapons I think the range modifier is fine, but it seems odd to put missiles on the list. They launch without Gunner skill at a target, get close to a target and then roll the attack roll. size of ship does not matter to a missile, nor does range.
Just my opinion, and probably my house rule.

 

[Nerhesi]

Does the range at launch affect missiles? They do not roll the attack roll until they reach the target. By the time they get to the ship they are at the ship so no range negative.
For that matter, do missiles launched from Bays get the negative DM for attacking ships smaller than a certain tonnage?
For beam weapons I think the range modifier is fine, but it seems odd to put missiles on the list. They launch without Gunner skill at a target, get close to a target and then roll the attack roll. size of ship does not matter to a missile, nor does range.
Just my opinion, and probably my house rule.

Range only affects if missiles are fired at distant (-6)

Good point about bays.. I dont think so? So I agree with you - But needs clarity in rules

 

[MongooseMatt]

Missile and torp bays do not suffer the bay DMs. However... just added a general rule that all torps suffer DM-2 against ships below 2,000 tons.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Missile and torp bays do not suffer the bay DMs. However... just added a general rule that all torps suffer DM-2 against ships below 2,000 tons.

-2 against "small" targets? That surely lessens the dangers for small ships, as we spoke of in another thread. Sure, it'll be very difficult to shoot down an armoured torpedo, but in the end the torpedo itself still runs a decent chance of
Missing the target. Nice!

 

[PsiTraveller]

Does the tech level advantage apply to torpedoes as well as missiles? So if a TL 14 ship attacked a TL 12 ship with a torpedo the -2 would be nullified? And what TL's are the advanced torpedoes?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Does the tech level advantage apply to torpedoes as well as missiles? So if a TL 14 ship attacked a TL 12 ship with a torpedo the -2 would be nullified? And what TL's are the advanced torpedoes?

Torps follow all the usual rules for missiles. They just hurt more.

 

[AndrewW]

Torps follow all the usual rules for missiles. They just hurt more.

If they manage to hit.