Military Vehicles - First Impression
- Thread starter Somebody
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It may not be noticeable in Military Vehicles, but the prices for civilian vehicles are off by huge margins, five or tenfold in some cases, and not consistently either by amount or whether too high or too low :shock:
I also understand that a Gas Turbine powered 1990's MBT is the queen of the battlefield right through to TL15 because of the ... stuffed ... armour and engine rules
Phil
I also understand that a Gas Turbine powered 1990's MBT is the queen of the battlefield right through to TL15 because of the ... stuffed ... armour and engine rules
Phil
Prices are very easily fixed in any setting without really compromising anything else. (this is fiction - as are prices in the RW when one gets right down to itaspqrz said:It may not be noticeable in Military Vehicles, but the prices for civilian vehicles are off by huge margins, five or tenfold in some cases, and not consistently either by amount or whether too high or too low :shock:
I also understand that a Gas Turbine powered 1990's MBT is the queen of the battlefield right through to TL15 because of the ... stuffed ... armour and engine rules
Phil
)Now, 'stuffed ... armour and engine rules' is another story - since that speaks more directly to the design rule mechanics and game balance.
I've heard similiar complaints about other MGT design rules - that didn't pan out since the rules were mis-understood or mis-applied.
So are there verifyable, explicit examples of this?
Well, there are some things concerning Turbines which I find ... slightlyBP said:
unconvincing ...
A Turbine at TL 5 has a higher power output per cubic meter (20) than a
Nuclear Fission power plant at TL 9 (19). A Turbine at TL 10 has a higher
power output per cubic meter (30) than a Nuclear Fusion power plant at
TL 15 (28 ).
The TLs seem off - Fusion P.P. start at TL 8 for spaceships? - but then Traveller always seems a bit screwey when if comes to power/nuclear power and TLs - so this is actually kinda consistent. (Though you didn't state these were starting TLs...)rust said:
And if the design permits that appropriate reduction in fuel requirements and the endurance for the fission/fusion versus the turbine then that doesn't actually seem out of line (material science is also rather anemic for TLs - shielding and systems could make a simple density relationship skewed in favor of an older tech - that is after all the case today for fission in aircraft - turbines have a lot of empty space and light wieght materials - reactors not so much).
rust said:
Useful power - if that 'reactor' is mostly solid sheilding and secondary funcitons? Afterall it depends on how power is defined - granted the energy output of the reactor should, in every concievable way, be much greater - but this by no means would define the net useful power - one hopes that the design rules didn't attempt using terms like MWe!To be practical in vehicle design such technologies would have to significantly exceed current (Generation III?) plans... consider they would not have a steady load - nor any good brute force way of just dumping all that thermal energy (well in atmo anyway - nor for stealth in water) - and need to be self-restartable (generate thier own heavy neutrons?) - and may have a lot of volume taken up by moderator - and of course require significant shielding mass.
Don't get me wrong - I seriously doubt I'd find this system 'believable' - but I don't expect that entertainment authors should be well versed in this subject area - and the majority of their audience won't be either. I do expect to have to make 'allowances' for this to help hold up my handy 'suspenders of disbelief'
If the rules are consistent, balanced and otherwise playable - while not completely falling off the science fiction boat into fantasy land - then they might be ok (especially for those who have already accepted the spaceship design rules).
So - does the slightly lower power density come with greater range and lower fuel requirements?
I cannot look this up, after the "submarine desaster" I gave my copy ofBP said:
Civilian Vehicles away and returned to GURPS.
I really like Mongoose Traveller, and so it hurts somewhat to write this,
but the parts of the vehicle design system that I would have needed for
my setting, and that I had bought the book for, are severely broken, and
some other parts - like the power plants - would deliver results my play-
ers would not accept, so ...
Understood.
I am not really interesest in these books per se - just trying to more objectively qualify the harsh complaints as to how deserving they are - its only fair when one hears blatant negatives for a product.
For me design systems should :
a) be mostly formulas - tables are a usefull shortcut for die roll results - not for intentional design. Not to say tables are usefull for some parts of design.
b) Cover fiction - the RW is way to complicated for game play and coming up with anything that matches reality is a farce. Discrete components are ok - but 'design' should be very vague and open ended to support RW items.
For real world tech - I simply look to the real world (Jane's books in the past - the inter(tain)net today ) and make simple extrapolations to existing game designs.
I also know this probably is not what many folks are likely looking for...
I am not really interesest in these books per se - just trying to more objectively qualify the harsh complaints as to how deserving they are - its only fair when one hears blatant negatives for a product.
For me design systems should :
a) be mostly formulas - tables are a usefull shortcut for die roll results - not for intentional design. Not to say tables are usefull for some parts of design.
b) Cover fiction - the RW is way to complicated for game play and coming up with anything that matches reality is a farce. Discrete components are ok - but 'design' should be very vague and open ended to support RW items.
For real world tech - I simply look to the real world (Jane's books in the past - the inter(tain)net today
) and make simple extrapolations to existing game designs.I also know this probably is not what many folks are likely looking for...
Somebody said:BP:
Any chance I could borrow your copy of "Janes All the Galaxies GravTanks" (the 1104 edition would be enough)
Sorry, I let my subscription lapse...
What I said:
As I said, I'd prefer design systems to cover fiction - not reality, and not everyone will have that same preference
Thought you did - was just making sure!Somebody said:I got that. But I never let facts stand in the way of a yoke or a Badger picture
Besides a "Janes" style supplement for MGT might actually work as a PDF. The pictures are mostly line drawings not "full pictures" and some fluff text around it.
And I love the idea of Jayne's (FireFly pun intended) Books for MGT. I remember the first time I opened one of the Jane's books - there was a full page color add with a torpedo bursting through a plate underwater with the caption 'We punch holes in the Competition!'.
