Milani Carriers
- Thread starter Banichi
- Start date
It did lose a die on its beam though...and got smaller. Even with its shields the loss of the interceptors makes it overall a weaker ship against anything but the heavily beam armed. The abbai basically lost about a third of the ship, got it back as a shield with a slow recharge rate and lost the interceptors. In most cases this makes the ships weaker. In the milani's case maybe a coin toss, as the shields will stop at least one hit a turn.
Sadly the shield mechanic forces the same approach used against interceptors before. You always work you way up small guns hitting first, big weapons coming in after. An argument could be made for using big guns first before the shield falls...preserve as many chances for crits as possible, not sure.
Ripple
Sadly the shield mechanic forces the same approach used against interceptors before. You always work you way up small guns hitting first, big weapons coming in after. An argument could be made for using big guns first before the shield falls...preserve as many chances for crits as possible, not sure.
Ripple
I always found that the Milani was a tougher ship than before with Shields stopping crits but Interceptors will let some hits (beams included) through. The loss of AD makes the beam about the same power due to the old one being only AP. I've found at worst it performs very similarly to 1st ed.Ripple said:
Greg Smith
Mongoose
I'm in agreement with Triggy. I find the initial immunity to crits a big bonus. Not to mention what is essentially self repair (but affects crew too).
From a couple of games against the Abbai with shields, I think they are tougher than before, the early crit immunity offered by shields gives them a much better chance of bringing there sick amount of weapons into range! at least before you could do them some damage before they enveloped you in a world of pain ;-), now they just soak up your shots, and then whack you!
e-mines, and plasma web's though are great at reducing shields quickly, and on mulitple targets.
e-mines, and plasma web's though are great at reducing shields quickly, and on mulitple targets.
My initial comment was that they suffered more as they lost as many damage boxes as they gained in shield AND lost interceptors. So against interceptable foes they generally stopped about 3 hits...or about what you stop now days on the first turn or two vs double/triple damage weapons. But by the third turn you are actually starting to be worse off than before.
Shields, unlike interceptors, will be worn down. Interceptors ran at a 6+ no matter what until you were crippled. Again...against beam you have improved, against missile you are weaker. Not saying its better or worse right now, just saying they feel slightly more fragile than they were.
On the beam, with the change in the AP-ness of beams I tend to agree that the loss of one die should be okay. Sadly I'm really not sure it evens out. It's a loss of a third of your beam power in exchange for a -1(vs 4)/even(vs 5)/+1(vs 6) on the initial hit. Follow on shot are much stronger...but still feels like we increased variance for only a vague gain.
I'm still down in Sydney so haven't had a chance to try them out really. Soon as I get home I'll haul out the little ladies and see how they do. But the change to fighters being able to act as interceptors means everyone and their brother will now have interceptors EXCEPT the ships that used to be known for them. And the second die on the Kotha didn't do a thing for it really. It's issues are still it's speed, not its firepower.
Anyway, I grousing over an initial impression. I may be proved wrong by further play, but right now I feel the abbai got the short end of the stick, much like the Narn did in the last revisions e-mine changes. It's not that they don't have advantages, but in gaining those advantages, we may have screwed up the race.
The Bimith is now too slow and too clumsy to ever get range on anything that doesn't deliberately chose to get shot. It did get to be what its always claimed to be, an escort/defender, but it's hopeless at defending the ships that need the defense as it can't keep formation.
The milani just seems more fragile.
Tiraca became a more kamikazee ship with its increase emphasis on forward firepower...and got more fragile in the standard way...eh...
Never liked the Lakara (but ugly hull...snow speeder just doesn't belong with the older models...) but at least here the shields start to look really significant.
Juyaca...just feels too slow/short ranged to win a fight...we'll see.
As to the idea that they gained self-repair...well a self repair of 1 or 2 is crap in most games I've played and that even came with a damage control bonus. I just don't think it rates on ships this small.
But like I said...i'm cranky, far from home and maybe just being paranoid. Be home in a few days and will try it out on the table and see.
Ripple
Shields, unlike interceptors, will be worn down. Interceptors ran at a 6+ no matter what until you were crippled. Again...against beam you have improved, against missile you are weaker. Not saying its better or worse right now, just saying they feel slightly more fragile than they were.
On the beam, with the change in the AP-ness of beams I tend to agree that the loss of one die should be okay. Sadly I'm really not sure it evens out. It's a loss of a third of your beam power in exchange for a -1(vs 4)/even(vs 5)/+1(vs 6) on the initial hit. Follow on shot are much stronger...but still feels like we increased variance for only a vague gain.
I'm still down in Sydney so haven't had a chance to try them out really. Soon as I get home I'll haul out the little ladies and see how they do. But the change to fighters being able to act as interceptors means everyone and their brother will now have interceptors EXCEPT the ships that used to be known for them. And the second die on the Kotha didn't do a thing for it really. It's issues are still it's speed, not its firepower.
Anyway, I grousing over an initial impression. I may be proved wrong by further play, but right now I feel the abbai got the short end of the stick, much like the Narn did in the last revisions e-mine changes. It's not that they don't have advantages, but in gaining those advantages, we may have screwed up the race.
The Bimith is now too slow and too clumsy to ever get range on anything that doesn't deliberately chose to get shot. It did get to be what its always claimed to be, an escort/defender, but it's hopeless at defending the ships that need the defense as it can't keep formation.
The milani just seems more fragile.
Tiraca became a more kamikazee ship with its increase emphasis on forward firepower...and got more fragile in the standard way...eh...
Never liked the Lakara (but ugly hull...snow speeder just doesn't belong with the older models...) but at least here the shields start to look really significant.
Juyaca...just feels too slow/short ranged to win a fight...we'll see.
As to the idea that they gained self-repair...well a self repair of 1 or 2 is crap in most games I've played and that even came with a damage control bonus. I just don't think it rates on ships this small.
But like I said...i'm cranky, far from home and maybe just being paranoid. Be home in a few days and will try it out on the table and see.
Ripple
agree about the bimith now being almost impossible to use effectively, slow, lumbering and 8" guns.
the lakara lost alot of its alround firepower. i think the abbai did get the short end of the stick in 2e as none gained damage, just a bit of crit survivability which if you opponent rolled poor crits doesnt make any differance anyway.
the lakara lost alot of its alround firepower. i think the abbai did get the short end of the stick in 2e as none gained damage, just a bit of crit survivability which if you opponent rolled poor crits doesnt make any differance anyway.
hiffano said:
What did you run against it? How big were the battles? What were the tactics being used aginst it to allow it to get it's shots? How big of a table were you using? These are important things to know. With it's slow speed and fairly short ranged guns and poor initiative, your opponent gets to choose the range of engagement. If it is a long range fleet, I don't think that the Jucya will fare well, but I could be wrong.
Dave
ive been playing it against centauri, but dont see the speed as a problem, you can if you want on the first turn all power to engines, that combined with your oponents move and your second usually puts it in range on the 2nd or at very leas 3rd turn, till then even if its targetted its interceptors and shields stop the damage
With alot of the scenarios in the book and at most tournaments are usually at shortish ranges - 24-30" etc we don't usually find range much of a problem.............in fact its usually the minbari (and probably the Vorlons now) complaining about the lack of it.............The new jump point rules now mean it can be a little more viable to use non AJP ships to jump nearer as well.
Although of course being Centauri player - everyone is usally in range of all guns by second turn :twisted:
Although of course being Centauri player - everyone is usally in range of all guns by second turn :twisted:
Nightmares about Minbari
Mongoose
The big guns on a lot of fleets are now shorter ranged than they used to be, these days anything with a range above 20 or 25 is starting to look impressive! Which makes the Vorlon increase in range just that much more juicy.
But Vorlons aside, it does mean that the shorter range on Abbai ships will be less of a disadvantage than it used to be, as other races will be eager to close the range as well.
Obviously only played a few games under e2 as yet, so still can be proved wrong.
But Vorlons aside, it does mean that the shorter range on Abbai ships will be less of a disadvantage than it used to be, as other races will be eager to close the range as well.
Obviously only played a few games under e2 as yet, so still can be proved wrong.
DavesaintWhat did you run against it? How big were the battles? What were the tactics being used aginst it to allow it to get it's shots? How big of a table were you using? These are important things to know. With it's slow speed and fairly short ranged guns and poor initiative said:
