MGT to CT conversion

[Supplement Four]

As much as I'm not "into" the MGT rules, I have considered picking up Mongoose Traveller adventures for use in my CT game.

Here's a question for those of you who use MGT. What's the weight of a +1 DM in Mongoose?

What do I mean by "weight"? Well, I'm considering what type of work it will take to convert MGT to CT. If you have a percentile based system, then a +1 DM will help your chance to succeed by 1%. If you're using a d20 based system, then a +1 DM will help your chance to succeed by five times as much, 5%.

It's harder to figure out with a 2d6 system, because the "amount of benefit" one recieved by gaining a +1 DM is in a range, depending on the die throw.



One would also want to look at NPCs in converting. I already know that MGT characters get more skills than their CT counterparts. I'm guessing, because of this, that Skill-3 and Skill-4 characters show up much more frequently than in a CT game.

Would I need to tone down not only the number of skills on a NPC might have but also the skill level on NPCs?



What other conversion sticky-points can you think of?

 

[rust]

Mongoose Traveller characters indeed tend to have both more skills and
more total skill levels than Classic Traveller characters, but in the end I
do not see this as a problem that makes a conversion necessary - in my
view at least the difference between, for example, 20 skill levels distribu-
ted among 10 skills and 30 skill levels distributed among 15 skills is not
really significant enough to influence the game, especially when it comes
to NPCs.

The weight of a +1 ... I find it impossible to answer that, in my view it de-
pends a lot on how and how often you use the situational modifiers, the
way you handle this has far more influence on the actual game than the
pure mathematics of a bonus or malus.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I think it makes a difference if you are using CT LBB 1-3 or the additional career supplements. MGT definitely has more skills than CT LBB 1-3 but I'd say it is pretty close to some of the results from the supplemental 're-worked' careers.

 

[Matian]

I think it makes a difference if you are using CT LBB 1-3 or the additional career supplements. MGT definitely has more skills than CT LBB 1-3 but I'd say it is pretty close to some of the results from the supplemental 're-worked' careers.

Agreed. I use CT NPC generators and the most I ever have to do is add an extra 0-level or 1-level skill here or there. Once you run a couple short MGT adventures you get a feel for what needs to be adjusted, or if you're anything like me, you can run the NPCs straight and adjust them on the fly.

I don't find I have a lot of characters with 3 or 4 ranks in a skill. Out of the twenty or so characters I've seen, only one had 3 ranks in anything, and that was a scholar with Medic (which is on the table IIRC three times).

As for the weight, that I can't talk on. I fall on the instinctive rather than crunchy side of the spectrum.

 

[Annic Nova]

I agree with the above posts.
I will also say that as a CT player, What is it that MGT has to offer you?
I dont see anything, except for the enhanced character generation.
CT already has comprehensive rules, and MGT mostly parses these down.
I have noticed that in CT, tasks are generally easier for characters, becasue of more skills and levels, more bonuses from equipment, and the added bonus mod from high characteristics.

Its your choice, but I dont see the benefit to add to a CT game.

Now, if you want to play MGT and use CT (thats what I do) you are probably spending your money well.

I still have to pull a lot of rules from Striker and MegaTraveller (and Robots)

 

[rust]

I just see that I should have written "difficulty modifier" instead of "situa-
tional modifier" in my post above ^^.

What I did mean is that a simple action gives a DM of +6, while an impres-
sive action gives a DM of -6. This gives a range of 13 (including 0 / no mo-
difier) between the best and the worst difficulty modifier, and the "size" of
the DM for a specific action depends on the referee's decision concerning
the difficulty of that action.

Now add in the real situational modifiers (e.g. in combat: target has cover,
etc.), and a simple +1 or -1 is just a very minor element in the entire cal-
culation. It does have "weight", but it would be quite difficult to make any
general statement about this weight.

 

[Supplement Four]

I agree with the above posts.
I will also say that as a CT player, What is it that MGT has to offer you?
I dont see anything, except for the enhanced character generation.

Well, not even that as I like CT's more open skill system.

You see, in CT, the skills listed on a character's sheet are really the areas where he excells. A character's list of skills is not a list of everything he knows.

For example, there are skill attempts that the character can make without any penalty. A good example of this is taking someone out of cold berth. The berths are pretty well automated. A throw is needed. If the character has Medical-2 or higher, the character gets a positive DM on the throw, but not having Medical skill does not penalize the character.



As MT came out, the idea that a character must have a skill or be penalized became more pervasive in the game. Later game editions stuck to the idea, and thus, so does MGT. The result is that you get characters with many more skills.



CT is just a different animal. A character can go through one term in a Career, fail re-enlistment, and start the game with two skills, both at level one, and the character would completely playable.

The two skills show where the Character gets bonuses, but the character is not limited to just those two skills--and he won't always get penalties for not having a needed skill.

 

[Supplement Four]

I just see that I should have written "difficulty modifier" instead of "situa-
tional modifier" in my post above ^^.

Yep. Thanks for the responses above.

What I did mean is that a simple action gives a DM of +6, while an impres-
sive action gives a DM of -6.

I probably won't use the MGT task system. I'll probably either convert to CT throws, or I'll use the UGM.

 

[Annic Nova]

I just see that I should have written "difficulty modifier" instead of "situa-
tional modifier" in my post above ^^.

What I did mean is that a simple action gives a DM of +6, while an impres-
sive action gives a DM of -6. This gives a range of 13 (including 0 / no mo-
difier) between the best and the worst difficulty modifier, and the "size" of
the DM for a specific action depends on the referee's decision concerning
the difficulty of that action.

Now add in the real situational modifiers (e.g. in combat: target has cover,
etc.), and a simple +1 or -1 is just a very minor element in the entire cal-
culation. It does have "weight", but it would be quite difficult to make any
general statement about this weight.

These are almost verbatim (the values are off by 1 or 2) from MegaTraveller.

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Ok for my 2 cents here, I have played/GM Traveller for 32+ yrs now, yes from the time it was first published. Now I had a campaign that lasted for 20 yrs running, and I only ended it because I desided to rewrite and redesign my Traveller campaign. Yes I am using a BSG Alternate Universe where the humans survived the last Cylon (Alien robotic Machines of a now dead Alien race) attack, that destroyed 40% of the 120 Battle Groups of the Colonial fleet and attacked all locations within the 15 systems star cluster that the Humans of the 12 Tribes control.

Now I do not consider myself to be a CT, MT, or any other version player or GM, I am just a Traveller player...plan and simple. Mongoose Pub is doing a great job with and for the Traveller game, and I wish some players would stop and take their heads out of the sand and get over the lose of their special version what-ever it might be. The past versions are GONE, and will never return EVER again. Incase you have not figured it out yet, but Mongoose Pub is cranking out alot of really good products and in time will greatly surpase all the other versions products for any other version. So guys just except it and enjoy the new returned interests in Traveller again.

Penn

 

[Edsan]

Actually, most, if not all of the versions of traveller are still avaiable and people keep on churning material for them.

You can purchase MGT and the CT adventures and play them, or buy Tripwire and Megatraveller and play that.

I don't get the Traveller edition war...unlike D&D not only are most of the Traveller materials avaiable outside Ebay, most are cross-compatible (Hero and D20 aside perhaps) AND the IP is in the hands of the original creator of the game.

Heck, compared to D&D, Traveller folks are having their cake and eating it too.

 

[Supplement Four]

Mongoose Pub is doing a great job with and for the Traveller game, and I wish some players would stop and take their heads out of the sand and get over the lose of their special version what-ever it might be. The past versions are GONE, and will never return EVER again. Incase you have not figured it out yet, but Mongoose Pub is cranking out alot of really good products and in time will greatly surpase all the other versions products for any other version.

Penn,

First let me say that I didn't intend this to be a MGT bashing thread. YOU brought it here.

Second, you are wrong on so many levels that it's funny. Mongoose is doing a great job with the Traveller game? I'm sure you'll find a lot of people nodding in agreement here, but, believe me, that's not a universal opinion.

The past versions of Traveller are GONE? Well, no, not quite. I've got almost an entire run of CT at my disposal that includes a vast majority of the third party stuff.

Plus, there wasn't anything published for CT for years, and then, there was, a quarter century later. There were several CT compliant CT items published by BITS and Avenger and QLI during the GURPS/T20 years. So, just because nothing is being published for CT right now, today, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. We've seen CT resurface too many times. To say, absolutely, that CT will never return is just downright foolish. Because, it might. It might not be while Mongoose has the license, but in 10 years and one month, who knows.

Thirdly, the biggest silly thing you've said is that Mongoose Traveller will greatly surpass all other versions of Traveller.

Well...hmm...I've heard that before. I've heard it from fans of TNE when GDW was pumping out TNE items. I've it from T4 fans when MWM's Traveller was being published. I've heard it from GT fans when GURPS Traveller was alive.

All of those versions are sinking into history, slowly being forgotten. I've never heard of a resurgeance of T4 or TNE or GT, but CT has done it--more than once.

There's no reason to believe that the Mongoose material won't be like TNE, T4, or GT once Mongoose is no longer publishing the game.

Mongoose is just what's "new" now. Some are jumping on that bandwagon, just like others did with T4 and TNE and T20 and GT.

Will it stand the test of time the way CT has?

I, personally, doubt it.

But, we'll see.

That's my opinion.

What you said in your post is yours.

 

[rust]

Will it stand the test of time the way CT has?

This is a somewhat unfair question, considering that CT will always have
a head start of 30 years, and therefore we will never be able to answer
it ... :lol:

 

[BP]

MGT is the newest variant of a well loved RPG - and it is the subject of this forum... all versions have their good points and their ardent fans as well as haters.

As to using MGT material in CT - with MGT intentionally designed to support compatibility with CT material - there is some merit in this. Some of the stats and cost changes make a different game balance due to the differences in rulesets - so that would take some work - but most of it could be fudged as you go along.

The combat systems are quite different - so getting stats on equipment to align could be an issue... so resources of this nature may require quite a bit of tweaking/redefinition to accommodate. For instance, the protection points of MGT armour are more flexible in a way and easier to play (no table lookup), since they don't require DMs for each weapon type - but also less realistic because of this...

Sectors/subsectors and systems and UWP will match up very nicely - and narative, especially with regards to the 3I should align very well, too. So the new map packs and sector coverage would probably have value in the CT world.

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Ok...I'm Bad,,,I salute you "Supplement Four" poster, but as I said I consider myself a "Traveller" player and for the record I have been extremely lucky over the 32+ yrs to been a member of HIWG and been able to buy/purchase/collect almost everything/anything that was Traveller or could be used for the game. My gaming library is huge, and my wife keeps seeing it growing :lol: ! Thus I could care less what version a Traveller based book was, I bought them all(first printing).

So my point is what "new" stuff has been produced for any of the other versions in the last 1-2 yrs. Ok T Hero has come and gone, it was a good system/version, but sadly has no more support because it was designed for Hero System v5, and HS has now officially moved on to HS v6. Plus the license issue and they can no long produce it anymore or anything new for it. As for Gurps, well I honestly never liked Gurps anything. I'd rather see it developed using BRP d100 system myself, but that isn't going to happen. So all we have is Mongoose Pub version of Traveller and I like their stye of doing it.

If the sales stay solid for the Game, MT might actually after 10yrs exceed all the other versions for the Traveller RPG game. Sorry I am a Old FRPGer that is a Die-Hard player/GM/collecter of anything Traveller and need to buy it all as a "paper copy" to add to my ever-growing gaming library.

Well I am sorry if I am coming off as a bit "gruff" but I see all versions of the game as great resources for the my own game and am happy that someone is cranking out "new" stuff and lots of it too. once again these are my feelings and yes they have come off rather "aggresively". I do regret that, and say I was wrong in my poor choice in tone/wording.

I do just support the game is all, and whish you all a Happy Hoildays too!

Penn

 

[Vile]

There's no real difficulty in using any MGT adventures with CT that I can see. If you strip out the task system, all of the background and equipment is pretty much compatible, probably most so out of all the other versions.

Of course, if you use the fluff from MGT and a homebrew task system, one has to question what part of the game remains "CT"? As Penn says, you'd be playing "Traveller" then - which is as it should be. 8)

 

[GypsyComet]

One would also want to look at NPCs in converting.

"Also"? How about "the most important step" instead. You already have your weapon charts and your skill handling, the task language is hardly rocket science, the ship and planet language is the same (though the underlying structures vary a bit), and you are already going to be moving specific place references to wherever your game is set.

Knowing your history of tinkering with mechanics, you should already recognize the answer to your question. You even stated it. A "+1" in MGT has the same "weight" in a task roll as it has in CT, precisely because both are 2d6 bell-curve games. A pound is a pound. Within the structure of the games, a +1 is the same in either

To carry the analogy further, MGT characters weigh more than Basic CT characters, but weigh less than Advanced CT characters. As such, the characters are your primary point of conversion. If your PCs are "lightweights", then the slightly heavier MGT characters will have advantageous rolls more often. If your CT PCs are Advanced System Heavyweights, MGT NPCs may seem a bit anemic. The differences either way can be adjusted by adding or subtracting skills, or can be chalked up to narrative style ("these guys make it look easy!"). You've been running and playing Traveller long enough to do that almost on the fly, right?

Right?

 

[Supplement Four]

The combat systems are quite different - so getting stats on equipment to align could be an issue... so resources of this nature may require quite a bit of tweaking/redefinition to accommodate.

Yeah, I'd have to go all CT on this. Recognize an AutoRifle and just use the CT stats.

For instance, the protection points of MGT armour are more flexible in a way and easier to play (no table lookup), since they don't require DMs for each weapon type - but also less realistic because of this...

More conversion work. What type of armor is akin to CT's Cloth? Or, is it more like Cloth +1?



Maybe I should just stick to the CT adventures and forget trying to convert MGT ones.

 

[Supplement Four]

"Also"? How about "the most important step" instead.

There could be a lot of work involved in conversion. If you're trying to make a faithful representation to the conversion--yes, that's a lot of work.

Or, one could look at an MGT Traveller module like one does an old GDW Traveller module, where all of the work is left to the GM. A GM could simply ignore any MGT stats and just look at the description. Use CT to roll up NPCs. Take quick guesses as to what piece of equipment is equal to what in CT.

That second way is probably the best way to do it. Use the deck plans, ideas, and story. Ignore MGT NPCs, stats, and equipment. Consider the MGT adventure as an adventure outline in the manner or old GDW adventures.

Yes, I think that might be best.

 

[BP]

...That second way is probably the best way to do it. Use the deck plans, ideas, and story. Ignore MGT NPCs, stats, and equipment. Consider the MGT adventure as an adventure outline in the manner or old GDW adventures.

Yes, I think that might be best.

NPCs should match up pretty well - maybe lower some skill levels is all - the UPP will matchup and the bulk of NPCs is typically in the narrative anyway.

Some equipment might be unique - but most have CT equivalent - and are often just referenced by name anyway...

Adventure modules are likely to fit pretty well, actually, with very little work. Likewise the sector map packs and probably the bulk of the non-design system works... for instance, the 760 patrons presents no real problems that I see, and for the ship supplements - most of the specs work, though you would need to re-work the computers & substitute sensors (I think) and decide what to do about >6G small ships.

New careers and skills should work fairly well (ignoring task check stuffs).

All in all it should be a fairly simple conversion = the equipment area is actually the area that would require the most effort - and that could be fairly minimal (just use CT stats in most cases) excepting maybe CSC...