MgT HG 2e p. 25 Sandcaster

[snrdg121408]

Morning PST,

While creating a spreadsheet to mix the sandcaster munitions between the four types shown on p. 31 I finally noticed that the write-up for a sandcaster (1) specifically mentions being mounted in turrets and (2) does not mention the number of canisters/barrel available when mounted on small craft firmpoints.

From MgT HG 2e p. 25:
"Sandcaster: Though mounted in turrets and of use against boarders, the sandcaster is primarily a defensive weapon used to protect ships from laser weapons. Each sandcaster holds 12 sand canisters/barrels and costs Cr25000 to refill."

Can sandcasters use fixed mounts?

What is the number of canisters/barrels available when a sandcaster is mounted on firmpoints?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I would say we can mount a sandcaster in whatever mount we want.

Note that a sandcaster can only be used to intercept a laser attack or attack boarders if mounted in a turret.

A sandcaster mounted on a fixed mount should be enough to fire Chaff (HG, p31).

 

[steve98052]

I'm not sure whether Mongoose rules allow for it, but in some rule sets sandcasters can also target missiles, blinding their terminal guidance sensors and possibly disabling them entirely. That's because at Traveller ship velocities, the impact of grains of "sand" have enough kinetic energy to blow through thin armor.

 

[Reynard]

"Chaff Canister: Sandcaster chaff disrupts sensors and communications targeted at the ship that creates the
cloud. All Electronics (comms), Electronics (sensors), Electronics (remote ops) checks and attack rolls for
missiles made within a chaff cloud suffer DM-1. Chaff does not provide protection against laser fire."

So yeah, Mongoose Traveller covers it.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm fairly sure you can't stuff thirty six canisters, three launch systems, and one gunner into fourteen cubic metres, not without Schrodinger's cat.

I'd say a sandcaster on a firmpoint holds six, arguably seven, canisters, but probably six.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I think the official position is that a turret takes 1 dT inside the ship and some more space outside the ship (somehow without affecting drive performance).

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDilbert, steve98052, Reynard, and Condottiere,

Thank-you all for the replies and hopefully my response properly sums up the comments.

A sandcaster may be installed in a fixed mount and is limited to 6 or 7 Chaff Canisters/Barrels when mounted on small craft firmpoints.

I am leaning towards 6 since 1 canister requires 1 ton/20 = 0.05 tons of space and then there is the space between them along the feed mechanism.

The rules in MgT HG 2e there is in my opinion a bit of extreme suspension of belief concerning how everything in a missile and sandcaster fits into 1 tons of space because of the ammo stored in the turret as opposed to what fits on weapons without ammo.

MgT HG 2e indicates that 20 canisters requires 1 ton of space for storage and if I have this right 12 canisters require 12/20 = 0.6 tons of space in a 1 d-ton turret. That would leave 0.4 tons for the sandcaster, feed mechanism, and whatever else is required for a turret.

If I am on the right path then installation of 2, 3, or 4 sandcasters in a 1 ton turret indicates that the number of canisters/barrels would have to reduced.

A missile rack has 12 missiles in its ready service magazine and on MgT HG 2e p. 29 12 missiles consume 1 ton of space. Looks like a 1 ton turret has Schrodinger's cat to fit the launcher, feed mechanism, 12 missiles, gunner, and whatever else is part of a turret. One missile takes up approximately 0.083 tons of space.

Using CT each missile launcher/rack and sandcaster has 3 missiles/canisters in the ready service magazine.

My impression is that the official ruling, like a number of other rules, subsumes everything into a 13.5/14 m^3 space. On TNE Core Rule Book p. 364 is an illustration of a laser socket including the gunner's station.

 

[Condottiere]

I thought it was a worthwhile calculation, since you'd like to know how much of free space you'll get if you install it as a fixed mount.

 

[steve98052]

A sandcaster canister is about 50 kg. Ordinary sand is about 1.6 g/cc bulk density, so 50 kg is a little more than 30 liters. If the canisters are cylinders, they fill a little more than 90% of a space with triangular packing, or about 78% with rectangular packing. Based on those numbers, 1 dton can hold about 350 sand canisters, with a mass of 17.5 tonnes.

If the constraint is actual mass, yes, 20 canisters at 50 kg each are one tonne, but in terms of dton volume that figure is silly. On the other hand, if you have an entire cargo hold full of sandcaster canisters, that 17.5 tonne per dton cargo density is going to make the ship feel sluggish. But on the other other hand, there are a lot of dense substances in the cargo tables. A hold full of steel plate would be around 78 tonnes per dton, for example.

It's reasonable to say that a sandcaster has only 12 canisters ready to fire without reloading; that's four hours of combat. And at 50 kg each you'll need a really strong gunnery assistant, or some mechanized assistance, to reload quickly. But 20 sandcaster canisters per dton is mostly silly.