MgT HG 2e Armoury p. 44

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon PST,

"One armoury is required for every 25 crew members and every 5 marines in order to provide adequate storage for equipment, weapons and ammunition."

Is one armoury required if there are 5 ship's crew and 20 marines?

 

[AndrewW]

Afternoon PST,

"One armoury is required for every 25 crew members and every 5 marines in order to provide adequate storage for equipment, weapons and ammunition."

Is one armoury required if there are 5 ship's crew and 20 marines?

It can be one or split. But would need 4 tons for the marines and 1 for the crew. (assuming one includes one).

 

[Condottiere]

It's a specialized ship's locker with a an endless bounty of ammunition, armour and weapons, the difference likely being that the first type supplies light security equipment, and the second one medium to heavy military weapons and personnel armour. Per.

 

[phavoc]

Civilian ships would most likely have a weapons locker, essentially a reinforced ships locker, to store weapons. They'd be light weapons, and passengers sidearms.

Military vessels would have armories, though small ships without marine boarding parties would not, for example, be equipped with tac missile launchers, plasma grenades, or most likely even grenade launchers. Body armor doesn't need an armory to be stored in. Most likely you'd have a storage area for the more mundane with a weapons locker for light arms.

Ships that have a need or expectation to see combat will have more robust armories. Depending on the circumstances (like say a merc ship) you'd see a lot of the weaponry stored in the cargo bay. Military ships would do the same, to an extent. Much depends on what the weapons being stored are and what the ship itself is expecting. Ships expecting regular combat or boarders might split up their armories for safety and to ensure a lucky hit doesn't destroy their weaponry. Other ships would keep them centralized for security and ease of use.

Ships that have battle dress would have what are called morgues, where the battledress and weapons are stored. For those you'd allot additional space for the marines to suit up and gear up, as well as storage of their gear.

 

[DivineWrath]

My impression was that is was for either 25 normal crew members, or 5 marines. The equipment needed for marines take up more room, so 1 marine equals 5 crew members. The equipment for crew members might be used in an emergency, such as when the enemy tries to board the ship. The marines might get several long arms and armor while the crew members might get pistols.

The write up could have been worded better to avoid confusion.

 

[AndrewW]

My impression was that is was for either 25 normal crew members, or 5 marines. The equipment needed for marines take up more room, so 1 marine equals 5 crew members. The equipment for crew members might be used in an emergency, such as when the enemy tries to board the ship. The marines might get several long arms and armor while the crew members might get pistols.

The write up could have been worded better to avoid confusion.

From the earlier edition:

Where military vessels are concerned, the number of armouries built into the ship’s design is based on crew size. One armoury is installed for either every 50 crew members, or every 10 marines, in order to provide adequate storage for equipment, weapons and ammunition.

Note this hasn't really changed, the earlier edition was a 2 ton armoury, it was reduced to 1 ton for the new edition for greater flexibility.

 

[Condottiere]

If you want to micromanage it, you can forego the armoury, but then you have to keep track of the equipment, who's got it and where it's being stored. Especially ammunition.

 

[snrdg121408]

Morning AndrewW, Condottiere, phavoc, and DivineWrath,

Based on AndewW's answer "It can be one or split. But would need 4 tons for the marines and 1 for the crew. (assuming one includes one)." my guess is that anything below the requirement of 25 crew or 5 marines makes an armory optional.

I go a bit further than Condottiere since in my opinion both the Armory and Ship's Locker are effectively specialized cargo spaces used to store the material needed by military troops or a variety of items that may or may not be useful to the crew. One of the items that probably is stored in a Ship's Locker, at least on military ships without Marines, would be handguns, rifles, shotguns and/or similar weapons along with some rounds. Other items stored in the Ship's Locker could be damage control kits, survival gear, first aid kits, or special items like a left handed jump space calibration wrench. However, I disagree that they have an endless supply of what the Marines or Traveller party need. My gaming experience has been the item I need is not there, broken, or I have to build the item from the kit that is missing the assembly instructions.

I disagree with phavoc about military storing material in a standard cargo hold. Based on the way things where set-up on the tenders that service SSBNs with Marines onboard the cargo holds were high security. Mercs on the other hand could store their extra stuff in a standard cargo hold or in an armory.

I am not sure I agree with DivineWrath's impression of the weapons carried by a military vessel without marines has a limited number handguns, shotguns, and rifles that probably are out dated models from the ground forces. They are used by watch standers in port to guard the Quarter Deck and during an emergency, like repelling boarders. The Marines would be kitted out with their normal gear.

I agree Condottiere that one can micro-manage everything or macro-manage by indicating that the armory or ship's locker, or missile magazine, or any other space has an unlimited supply of everything.

Thank you all for the replies.

 

[AndrewW]

Based on AndewW's answer "It can be one or split. But would need 4 tons for the marines and 1 for the crew. (assuming one includes one)." my guess is that anything below the requirement of 25 crew or 5 marines makes an armory optional.

Well, you can choose to include one or not. Most military ships will have one, some smaller ships with only a small crew and no marines on board may do away with a specialized armoury.

To clarify on the splitting, placement wise you could use 1 two ton armoury and 1 three ton armoury, 5 one ton armouries or whatever happens to work.

 

[Condottiere]

You can have weapon chests and gun lockers.

Two places could be next to the airlock and on the bridge, close at hand where you expect trouble.

 

[DivineWrath]

Whats not to get? Armories provide a very professional way to store combat equipment. I don't think that all crewmen and marines are fully equipped and combat ready all the time. I also don't think they store their equipment in their staterooms. I think it would be exhausting to carry around a lot of equipment all the time.

Mind you, what a half a dozen Travellers verses a military vessel with over a hundred men do with their equipment can be very different.

I don't know where you are getting the idea that the gear has to be out dated stuff. It can be as new and modern as the employer likes.

 

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon PST AndrewW,

Based on AndewW's answer "It can be one or split. But would need 4 tons for the marines and 1 for the crew. (assuming one includes one)." my guess is that anything below the requirement of 25 crew or 5 marines makes an armory optional.

Well, you can choose to include one or not. Most military ships will have one, some smaller ships with only a small crew and no marines on board may do away with a specialized armoury.

To clarify on the splitting, placement wise you could use 1 two ton armoury and 1 three ton armoury, 5 one ton armouries or whatever happens to work.

An armory is required to be installed during construction of a military hull for every 25 crew or when the ship is going to carry Marines an armory is required for every five marines.

A hull that has been built without the Marines would have to either install an armory in the cargo bay or share with the ship's crew.

I image that most hulls with less than 25 crew will either store their weapons in a Ship's Locker with other gear or have a separate Ship's Locker instead of an armory.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello DivineWrath,

Whats not to get? Armories provide a very professional way to store combat equipment. I don't think that all crewmen and marines are fully equipped and combat ready all the time. I also don't think they store their equipment in their staterooms. I think it would be exhausting to carry around a lot of equipment all the time.

Mind you, what a half a dozen Travellers verses a military vessel with over a hundred men do with their equipment can be very different.

I don't know where you are getting the idea that the gear has to be out dated stuff. It can be as new and modern as the employer likes.

I did not say or in anyway imply that the crew or troops carry their combat gear with them at all times or store them in their bunks.

I am getting the idea that military vessels that do not carry Marines will probably have less than the most up to date small arms and long arms from real life experience. The four submarines I served on had 45 caliber pistols, M-14s, and 16 gauge shotguns. The tender toys besides the stuff mentioned for the boats included 2x 25mm Mk38 cannons, 2x 40mm grenade launchers, and 2 50 caliber machine guns. I know that the Marines have some higher tech stuff.

A non-military employer, as you point out, can spring for any level of weaponry they want. However, I guessing the employer's options will be dictated by the amount they want to spend. Criminal elements will have everything from out of date to cutting edge from the black market.

A ship's locker dedicated to storing weapons is also a professional way of storing weapons on non-military or small military hulls. Armories cost more than Ship's Lockers which have no cost and are subsumed as cargo or bridge or stateroom volume.

 

[Condottiere]

Circumstance specific.

In Dark Matter, the crew had their personal weapons stored in their cabins.

Anything defined as military heavy could be locked away.

 

[phavoc]

I disagree with phavoc about military storing material in a standard cargo hold. Based on the way things where set-up on the tenders that service SSBNs with Marines onboard the cargo holds were high security. Mercs on the other hand could store their extra stuff in a standard cargo hold or in an armory.

Depends on what you are talking about. Say the troops have a vehicle that fires shells. Or they have an artillery vehicle that has artillery rounds. You aren't going to store those in an armory, you are going to store them in your cargo hold or, if you have one, a full-fledged magazine.

I was pointing out that there are all kinds of larger weapons, as well as large quantities of ammunition that is stored in bulk and won't be stored in an armory. Tac missiles, in their shipping containers, can be quite bulky. Say you were transporting a dozen cases, with 4 to a case. If we assume they are at least the size of Javelin (including their shipping containers), those are definitely going in the cargo hold. They are simply too bulky to be stored in an armory. A warship of size with a large enough Marine contingent, or even a Merc ship, may actually dedicate specific cargo hold space to be actual magazines, with reinforced bulkheads and security. But the same thing can be handled by posting armed guards if security is an issue.

I definitely don't advice going by the book as the end-all-to-fit-all explanation for weapon and ammunition storage. It's a place to start but common sense and an understanding of the ships mission and purpose win out each time. At least for me they do.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello phavoc,

I disagree with phavoc about military storing material in a standard cargo hold. Based on the way things where set-up on the tenders that service SSBNs with Marines onboard the cargo holds were high security. Mercs on the other hand could store their extra stuff in a standard cargo hold or in an armory.

Depends on what you are talking about. Say the troops have a vehicle that fires shells. Or they have an artillery vehicle that has artillery rounds. You aren't going to store those in an armory, you are going to store them in your cargo hold or, if you have one, a full-fledged magazine.

I was pointing out that there are all kinds of larger weapons, as well as large quantities of ammunition that is stored in bulk and won't be stored in an armory. Tac missiles, in their shipping containers, can be quite bulky. Say you were transporting a dozen cases, with 4 to a case. If we assume they are at least the size of Javelin (including their shipping containers), those are definitely going in the cargo hold. They are simply too bulky to be stored in an armory. A warship of size with a large enough Marine contingent, or even a Merc ship, may actually dedicate specific cargo hold space to be actual magazines, with reinforced bulkheads and security. But the same thing can be handled by posting armed guards if security is an issue.

I definitely don't advice going by the book as the end-all-to-fit-all explanation for weapon and ammunition storage. It's a place to start but common sense and an understanding of the ships mission and purpose win out each time. At least for me they do.

My apologies for not understanding that the scope of the discussion had been expanded from the ship's armory for security by either the ship's company or members of Ground Forces to include out-fitting the Ground Force, a.k.a. Marines/Troops/Mercs, with a complete Table of Organization and Equipment.

Yes, I realize that the over-simplified rules are not an end-all-to-fit-all explanation, however when the scope moved beyond the armory requirement of 25 crew and 5 Marines I missed the change.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Condottiere]

Anything that can puncture the hull, might be kept in a locked room.

High explosives, too.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello Condottiere,

Anything that can puncture the hull, might be kept in a locked room.

High explosives, too.

HE or other munitions I would like to see locked in a room that was designed to direct the blast away from the ship's interior blow out a section of bulkhead and hull plating into space.

 

[phavoc]

Whether or not the explosives are stored in a standard cargo hold or an ammunition magazine would depend on the ship's function and role. For example the Lewis and Clark class ships for the USN are supply ships that carry, among other things, ammunition to be supplied to ships at sea. They don't have specific ammunition storage areas. Everything is palletized and ready for easy delivery to other ships via helo or UNREP processing.

On the other hand, ships like the Arleigh Burke class DD have dedicated weapons magazines. But one is meant to be fired at while the other avoids conflict at all costs. Whether or not a ship would store explosive cargo in a standard bay really depends on it's mission. Plus if the ship is not expecting to see any combat while in space, storing ammunition in the general cargo holds also makes a lot of sense. Small arms and magazines filled with ammunition (or charged packs for energy weapons) would belong in an armory. Cases of rifles or pallets of ammunition/battery packs are generalized cargo that should be stored and handled as such.

 

[Condottiere]

A ship that has normal crewing, will likely want to control access to firearms, as well as centralize and ensure qualified personnel can easily locate them.