Mg42 Range

[Alexb83]

One problem I can see already is (in my group anyway) German players complaining about 'restricted range' on 88mm guns - 60 inches only works out to a range of about 100 meters in 28mm scale, for a gun which when tested on captured Tiger tanks could supposedly hit 2/3 targets out to over 2000m.

Of course I try and explain to them that a test on a clear day on a range with static targets and mounts does not equate to a real man behind sights trying to line up a shot against a moving target over undulating ground, but....

 

[hithero]

60" range is more than enough fo any regular gaming table, if plenty of terrain is used I doubt you will be able to fire that far. If playing in the dessert or stepps on a mahoosive table you could always double the ranges.

 

[Alexb83]

Yes, but considering the switch from inches to centimeters for movement distances to allow for a drop in scale, do you then need to double back out (say 120 centimeters rather than 60 for tank guns) to allow for longer range engagements?

I tire of the endless whining of ze Germans who think they should be able to bullseye your tanks from a mile away when you can't see them.

Edit: Also, unrestricted LOS on a desert table is also a bit of an unreality IMO - between undulations in terrain, heat haze and dust/sand storms I think you should be taken very broken LOS. It's just a question of how broken to make it outside of preset terrain features (ie hills, woods, rocks) with the artificial 'effective range'.

 

[Laffe]

Yes, but considering the switch from inches to centimeters for movement distances to allow for a drop in scale, do you then need to double back out (say 120 centimeters rather than 60 for tank guns) to allow for longer range engagements?

I tire of the endless whining of ze Germans who think they should be able to bullseye your tanks from a mile away when you can't see them.

Easy fix, off the top of my head, which would work for all nations:

Assume ALL tank guns and AT guns can fire farther than their max range. This requires a ready action first (and cannot be done while shooting on the move). If they do so they need to reroll any hits just as if they were moving. Second roll stands.

Then you could convert to cm's and still have tank guns firing across the table. Of course, it would be harder to hit, and tank guns with longer max range would start to hit earlier than their opponents.

 

[Alexb83]

It's an interesting fix - when you work the numbers back, a 2km gun range works to something like 15m in 15mm scale - so for all intents and purposes, guns like the 76mm high velocity, 17pdr and 88mm have infinite range

 

[Rabidchild]

Wow, Laffe, that's very close to my own version! :shock: My version is to take a ready action in order to double one weapon's range, if the weapon already has the Ready Trait, then it must reroll all hits.

With your idea, did you mean that with a Ready action the guns' ranges would be unlimited?

 

[Laffe]

Wow, Laffe, that's very close to my own version! :shock: My version is to take a ready action in order to double one weapon's range, if the weapon already has the Ready Trait, then it must reroll all hits.

With your idea, did you mean that with a Ready action the guns' ranges would be unlimited?

Well, it was just something I thought of at spur of the moment. Double max range might be better, although unlimited range would be more realistic for tank guns I think (there are records of tanks getting hit at 2km and more). Not sure about the ready action, but it should definitely be harder to hit if you fire over max range (i.e. reroll hits).

 

[Rabidchild]

While unlimited is tempting, there are a few of the smaller guns with limited range that shouldn't be able to shoot at anything they can see. Doubling the range seems good, and I like the idea of re-rolling any hits at long range. If you try it out, please post the results here.

 

[Graywinter]

I've worked quite a bit writing a 28mm game that didn't have ranges for most weapons (assuming that firearms could travel anywhere on the table, except for pistols, SMGs and the like) and what we found is that it created a boring 'stand off' engagement. It was way too tempting to have guys plinging M1 rounds at Germans 4 or 5 feet away on the table. The Germans then hunkered down and returned fire... 4 or 5 feet away. The game turned into a quagmire quickly. Games with moving and gunning are far more fun.

When you think about it... sure the weapon COULD fire a 1/2 mile or more... but can a man really see anything that far away?

Really, works better to cap the range somewhere, to limit the 6' shots - I ended up setting a 'maximum effective range' of 36" for small arms, and saying that you can't really see well enough to aim with the smoke and excitement. Maybe any shots beyond this point are ineffective... or maybe the soldier is more focused on what is right in front of him.

My game didn't really deal with large caliber weapons, as it was a squad level skirmish - so I didn't have to deal with that. Just some thoughts.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

while a good table will contain a great deal of terrain (at least 12 peices of medium to large pieces plus a half dozen smaller ones as well) you should endevour to keep the terrain seperated. I used to game with some people (fow) who didn't like vehicals so they would litterally pack the table with terrain that blocked LoS so that your units couldn't see 6" in front of them... made it real hard going for my panzer company... especially when I loaded up on panthers.

 

[DM]

made it real hard going for my panzer company... especially when I loaded up on panthers.

Welcome to Normandy. In fact most of NW Europe

 

[Alexb83]

Roll every turn to break down on a 1-3

 

[weasel_fierce]

I've worked quite a bit writing a 28mm game that didn't have ranges for most weapons (assuming that firearms could travel anywhere on the table, except for pistols, SMGs and the like) and what we found is that it created a boring 'stand off' engagement. It was way too tempting to have guys plinging M1 rounds at Germans 4 or 5 feet away on the table. The Germans then hunkered down and returned fire... 4 or 5 feet away. The game turned into a quagmire quickly. Games with moving and gunning are far more fun.

So you got the enemy pinned down. Thats when the sergeant leads the other group around their flank and assaults.. or the company mortars drops a few rounds on their stupid heads, or reinforcements arrive because you've pissed away the hour of time the surprise attack gained you.

 

[Alexb83]

I've worked quite a bit writing a 28mm game that didn't have ranges for most weapons (assuming that firearms could travel anywhere on the table, except for pistols, SMGs and the like) and what we found is that it created a boring 'stand off' engagement. It was way too tempting to have guys plinging M1 rounds at Germans 4 or 5 feet away on the table. The Germans then hunkered down and returned fire... 4 or 5 feet away. The game turned into a quagmire quickly. Games with moving and gunning are far more fun.

So you got the enemy pinned down. Thats when the sergeant leads the other group around their flank and assaults.. or the company mortars drops a few rounds on their stupid heads, or reinforcements arrive because you've pissed away the hour of time the surprise attack gained you.

That all relies on a. playing more scenario-based games and b. playing on big enough tables to actually use that sort of range for 28mm models.

 

[weasel_fierce]

That all relies on a. playing more scenario-based games and b. playing on big enough tables to actually use that sort of range for 28mm models.

To be honest, points based tournament games are propably the worst way to play a wargame in every possible regard. But even if you are playing that way, you should still have troops not committed, that you can send around their flanks.

Once you give up the ability to maneuver, you are conceding the initiative to your opponent.

 

[Graywinter]

I have to admit we have a very large table to play on at our FLGS... its like 6'x12' although we usually only play on 2/3 of it... 6'x8" or something. Non Com knows how big it is, exactly. I can never remember.

 

[Alexb83]

Yeah, all the games we play are on a 12x6 that one of our friends with a spacious loft happens to have You'd think that would be big enough to do large scale 28 mm, but we still play 15mm as you can do pretty large engagements with style.

 

[Graywinter]

We did our D-Day FOW game on this sucker. Non Com organized and ran it for us, and it was a lot of fun so I know what you mean by 15mm being done with style on a 12x6.

The AAR is on the FoW forums somewhere I think, with photos and all.

 

[Rabidchild]

:shock: I'd love to see that if you can find that link! I love FoW, and a 12x6 boggles the mind. 8)

 

[Graywinter]

:shock: I'd love to see that if you can find that link! I love FoW, and a 12x6 boggles the mind. 8)

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&forumid=7&postid=242400&view=topic