A Question on Portals

[Lyrell'e]

In Secrets of the Ancients they mention that the typical ship-mounted internal portal has a range of 30 LM, and that "So long as two or more portals are in range of each other, they automatically form a portal network". All rather straightforward. But here's an interesting question.

In this case or indeed most cases of dealing with portals, they will be from a single ship or installation. But what about cases where portals on one ship come into range of another portal or portals from a different vessel or base? Do the two networks link together?

On one hand, this would be a potential breach in security for any portal system, and I doubt any Ancient or other civilization with this tech would want this. Would be a boon for hostile spies, pirates, saboteurs etc.

On the other side, it opens up the potential for adventures. Perhaps Travellers fortunate enough to have a small portal network could discover an unknown base? On the other hand, maybe they could take a portal to another part of their ship and end up in Seven's pocket universe? (Baaaaaaaa----SPLAT)

That last point brings up yet another question. Do portals in a pocket universe count as being "in range"? I would say that only the access portal to the PU might. Assuming of course that it is even possible to link to other networks at all. I got the impression that all portals on a given base or ship were affiliated with a particular pocket universe connected to that ship.

What do people think?

Addendum: The teleporter pads mentioned in Wrath of the Ancients seem to be a completely different item, as they are listed as having ranges going up to at least hundreds of parsecs. They also are mentioned as requiring time and deliberate effort as opposed to the SOTA portals just automatically linking. They also are activated as you stand on one and get shifted as opposed to the portals where you just walk through one.

 

[Sigtrygg]

From the original CT Secret of the Ancients.

"Portals: Portals are produced in a variety of sizes and shapes. In general, there are three sizes: personal, cargo, and ship. Personal portals are about 2 meters in diameter. Cargo portals are about 10 meters in diameter. Ship portals are about 200 meters in diameter. In all cases, a prime portal is slightly larger.
Portals are constructed on a titanium alloy base. They are rigid, and become permanently inoperable damaged. They are, however, powered from the pocket universe, making them portable and independent of local power sources.
Range: The nature of the pocket universe which is the basis for the teleportation network determines the range of the network. Factors such as mass and energy of the system, size of the pocket universe, and energy transmission rates all influence the effective range of the network. The maximum range for teleportation using any pocket universe is approximately 72 light minutes, but such a distance is possible only under special circumstances; the practical limit is thirty-six light minutes; beyond that range, portals disconnect from the system and become inoperable.

The reason for this phenomenon is the the prime portal. The center of the pocket universe is firmly "attached" to one portal: the prime portal. In effect, the pocket universe follows this prime portal around. Other portals compute their range from it. If a portal is taken more than 36 light minutes from the prime it disconnects from the system and becomes inoperable. If the prime is taken more than 36 light minutes
from another portal, the other portal disconnects.
The prime portal is slightly larger than the other portals, and this is for a purpose: disconnected portals can be reset and made operable again by passing them through the prime portal.
Because portals beyond 36 light-minutes from the prime disconnect, most users restrict themselves to that distance. If two portals are each 36 light-minutes from the prime portal, then it is possible to teleport up to 72 light minutes- but the the prime portal must be positioned midway between them."

 

[Lyrell'e]

From the original CT Secret of the Ancients.

"Portals: Portals are produced in a variety of sizes and shapes. In general, there are three sizes: personal, cargo, and ship. Personal portals are about 2 meters in diameter. Cargo portals are about 10 meters in diameter. Ship portals are about 200 meters in diameter. In all cases, a prime portal is slightly larger.
Portals are constructed on a titanium alloy base. They are rigid, and become permanently inoperable damaged. They are, however, powered from the pocket universe, making them portable and independent of local power sources.
Range: The nature of the pocket universe which is the basis for the teleportation network determines the range of the network. Factors such as mass and energy of the system, size of the pocket universe, and energy transmission rates all influence the effective range of the network. The maximum range for teleportation using any pocket universe is approximately 72 light minutes, but such a distance is possible only under special circumstances; the practical limit is thirty-six light minutes; beyond that range, portals disconnect from the system and become inoperable.

The reason for this phenomenon is the the prime portal. The center of the pocket universe is firmly "attached" to one portal: the prime portal. In effect, the pocket universe follows this prime portal around. Other portals compute their range from it. If a portal is taken more than 36 light minutes from the prime it disconnects from the system and becomes inoperable. If the prime is taken more than 36 light minutes
from another portal, the other portal disconnects.
The prime portal is slightly larger than the other portals, and this is for a purpose: disconnected portals can be reset and made operable again by passing them through the prime portal.
Because portals beyond 36 light-minutes from the prime disconnect, most users restrict themselves to that distance. If two portals are each 36 light-minutes from the prime portal, then it is possible to teleport up to 72 light minutes- but the the prime portal must be positioned midway between them."

So I suppose just go with CT's view that each "set" of portals has it's own affiliated pocket universe. This is a good thing in my opinion since the nigh-unlimited range ones in WOTA seemed a little off. Although again those could be considered a completely separate system. Only real difference between CT and MgT Secret of the Ancients seems to be the range went from 36 LM to 30.

 

[Lyrell'e]

Also, it leaves the potential open that if a "loose portal" (ie: One where the prime portal was destroyed) into range of another network, it could possibly "retune" to the new Prime. Seeing as the portals are not the pocket universe themselves, but rather quantum and dimensionally attuned to one.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The Mongooe author may have been using something that appeared in a couple of T4 adventures - - - an Ancients interstellar jump pad network, sadly the word portals has been conflated to mean two different things.

The multi parsec jump pads/portals are a different technology to the portal networks that give access to pocket universes and are used to construct ships and bases around.

The interstellar network was more akin to stargates, they were all located on worlds or asteroids if I remember correctly.

 

[Lyrell'e]

The Mongooe author may have been using something that appeared in a couple of T4 adventures - - - an Ancients interstellar jump pad network, sadly the word portals has been conflated to mean two different things.

The multi parsec jump pads/portals are a different technology to the portal networks that give access to pocket universes and are used to construct ships and bases around.

The interstellar network was more akin to stargates, they were all located on worlds or asteroids if I remember correctly.

Pretty much. They even mention Ancient ships being sent out on missions to emplace the jump pads. I use portal for the original 30-36LM pocket universe based system, and Gate for the multi-parsec system just to cut down on the confusion.

As far as the linking to other portals not part of the original ship or base, I'm going with the idea that a portal can be retuned to a new network if the original prime/master portal is destroyed. Of course doing this will take some effort as opposed to the simpler "Bring it close".

With regards to the whole Tsyamoykyo plotline. I'm honestly just ignoring it. The idea that the ancients would let this little psycho build metaphasic bombs into all of their pocket universes strains belief-especially in the case of Ancients like Seven. As a kind of sideline to this, it would make sense that due to security you could not "co-opt" or access another portal network remotely if the targetted network's prime portal is still operational. That's a security breach of potentially cataclysmic proportions.

And yes, the Interstellar gates seemed to only be on worlds or in pocket universe fortresses. Never heard of one on a ship.

 

[Arkathan]

Sigtrygg's earlier post makes it sound like any intact disconnected portal can be tuned to a new network by passing it through a new Prime Portal.
You'd assume that the thing would be guarded to prevent any unauthorized reprogramming, but if your PC's HAVE one in a reclaimed pocket universe then any portals they procure would be fair game.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Yes, i was always of the understanding that if you had a prime portal then you could link any additional portals you come across.

Say by some miracle the players manage to get hold of a prime portal and a data crystal with Ancient bases. While visiting these they occasionally find portal networks. They could take the not-prime portals with them and link them to their own prime portal.

Revisiting this topic today I am asking myself several questions I never did back in the day.

What sort of intelligence runs the operating system of the prime portal? Is it a sentient machine, or is it a very capable "dumb" system

 

[Lyrell'e]

Based on what was mentioned in SOTA with the two AI on the Sphere-podship helping or hindering people, I'd say that normally there is a built-in expert system but a ship's AI can override this if needed. I doubt a common ship computer could do this though.

 

[Lyrell'e]

On a related note, does anyone know if it was ever mentioned whether or not you can see what is on the other end of an activated portal before you step through it?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Unless they changed it electromagnetic radiation can not pass through a portal, they have a mirror like surface but would have to check that last bit.
"The Portals: Each of the portals in the ship is circular and roughly two meters in diameter. When turned off, or inoperative, the panel is steel-grey; when operating, it is a shimmering-white."

 

[Lyrell'e]

Unless they changed it electromagnetic radiation can not pass through a portal, they have a mirror like surface but would have to check that last bit.
"The Portals: Each of the portals in the ship is circular and roughly two meters in diameter. When turned off, or inoperative, the panel is steel-grey; when operating, it is a shimmering-white."

I know they did change the energy transfer part. In the description of the ship from SOTA it describes the power source as being a portal that transmits energy from a star in the ship's pocket universe. That's easily explainable a a dedicated system though, so could still not allow visuals. The portal on that ship are described as displaying visual information like a screen, but no mention of seeing through them.