Mechanic - not needed as a skill?

[CosmicGamer]

A Traveller Engineer is not some pen and paper, behind a desk Design engineer. They can turn a wrench and maintain and repair the M-drive, J-drive, Power plant and so on. Filters changed, injectors cleaned, broke a hose, cracked housing... So who needs a mechanic? Shouldn't an Engineer be capable of doing the mechanics job of repairing all the basic equipment too? In a way, a mechanic is maybe just a level 0 Engineer?

My thoughts initially fit the a CT like task system more than the current system. An engineer 0 can do general maintenance and everyday operation, level 1 can do repairs, level 2 knows enough to jury rig systems and tweak the system to get a temporary boost, level 3 can...

I guess it still fits the Mongoose way of handling tasks too if you think in this way: The engineer 0 maintenance guy can still try to do repairs or even jury rig systems, just isn't as likely because they are not trained as well.

Shrug. Anyways, should Mechanic skill just be dropped as being covered by Engineer? Keep Mechanic since it is "beneath" an engineer - but engineers could perform any Mechanic task too?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Engineer (Mechanics) then? Do they still get to laithe hand weapons and stuff? I've only used mechanic for things where motor oil dripped everywhere. And wrenches. Gods! The wrenches!

 

[-Daniel-]

Shrug. Anyways, should Mechanic skill just be dropped as being covered by Engineer? Keep Mechanic since it is "beneath" an engineer - but engineers could perform any Mechanic task too?

I have always thought of the Mechanic Skill as things not on a ship and the Engineer skill as ship focused stuff. Not saying this is true, just the way I have always thought of it. So with that in mind I also never saw the Mechanic skill as beneath the Engineer skill. Your air raft breaks down, use mechanics skill. The ATV breaks down, use mechanics skill. The J-Drive breaks use the Engineer skill.

So if I were to bring over a suggestion I made on another thread:

Engineer (Ship Drive Systems)
Engineer (Ship Support Systems)
Engineer (Mechanics)

??? What do you think??? Reduces two skills and four specialties down to one skill and three specialties.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Or... Profession (Mechanic).

 

[-Daniel-]

Or... Profession (Mechanic).

That might work, but it would need to be clear they are more than a car mechanic.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

This is one of those areas, like the Melee skill with Martial artists or SCA members...

The more you know about the actual, real world stuff, the less helpful you are in simulating this in a game.

I was a nuclear mechanic in the Navy
I have a Master's Degree in Aerospace Engineering
I work as an engineer in aircraft avionics

I am probably the last person to discuss the details of the Electronics, Mechanic and Engineer skills. Like the Martial Artist that insists there is a big difference between how you use a Rapier and how you use a Dagger, I know too much to really help.

SO, forget all that and go back to what the GAME is trying to do.

Electronics is for Sensors, Computers etc. If it is what we would consider an electrical device, this is the skill.

Mechanic is for the non-electronic stuff. BUT, it could still be electrical. A mechanic can change a light switch or check a wire for a ground, but it not the guy to fix the wall-screen.

So, the mechanic works on valves, pumps, metal, and some electrical but not electronic stuff. He change the black box, but not fix the box... that for the "wire biters".

ENGINEER - what does an Engineer do that an Electronics or Mechanics expert can't do. She fixes Spaceship systems. Contra-gravity, fusion generators, thruster plates, Jump drives; that is her area.

BUT, most people with some technical skill can do a bit of all three. Even though I have never seen a Jump Drive before I would not be totally incompetent to work on some of the systems. They are still wires, tubes and computers - but I don't think I would say that I could count it as Level-0 skill (competent to use the skill but has little experience actually using it). SO, even though I have Mechanics-1 (or maybe 2 on a good day), I do NOT have Engineer-0.

BUT, as an Engineer, I MIGHT have Mechanic-0, but don't ask me to change the engine on your grav car.

I think we leave the skills as they are and allow the Referee to use Boons if the situation makes sense.

The frakking M-Drive won't turn one because the main power coupling has a broken connector pin.
The Mechanic or Electronics person could probably fix that because connector pins are things they work on and so are power harnesses (so a Boon to their unskilled roll), but they haven't ever had to do it on a thruster plate carrying MegaWatts of power through it (ok not whent they are working on it, but you get the idea). Some of it is SCALE of work and some of it is just DIFFERENT.

As a Mechanic on a nuclear submarine, I could work on steam turbines etc. but I was pretty helpless when it came to fixing my car. I could struggle my way through it, after all, I did know about motors and pumps and stuff like that, but not really how it worked under the hood.

Given how relatively rare Engineer is as a skill - I think the number of specialties needs to be reduced or maybe even completely eliminated.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Engineer (Mechanics) then? Do they still get to laithe hand weapons and stuff? I've only used mechanic for things where motor oil dripped everywhere. And wrenches. Gods! The wrenches!

Addressing Daniels post as well, another separate specialty is not my suggestion or to my liking. What do others think?

In regards to using a lathe. I'd assume operating one is needed to repair the M-drive, J-drive, Life Support, or Power Plant. Then the only hurdle I see to using the lathe to make hand weapons is knowledge of the hand weapons.

ENGINEER - what does an Engineer do that an Electronics or Mechanics expert can't do.

Lot's. My question in this thread is what can a mechanic do that an engineer, who can pretty much repair anything on the ship? can't.

Electronics - I didn't target you as being completely covered by engineer because you do have some abilities other than just maintenance and repair. A good understanding of operating all the various electronics.

As an Engineer, I MIGHT have Mechanic-0

Are you talking real life? Traveller by the rules? You're house rules or personal interpretation?

don't ask me to change the engine on your grav car.

You, as a Traveller character with Engineer skill - why not? The engineer can repair the air lock motors, maneuver drive, compressor motors in the life support system, motors that rotate the turrets, and all the different kinds of motors and engines throughout a ship. Also under Engineer it states "The Engineer skill is used to operate and maintain spacecraft and advanced vehicles.

Some of it is SCALE of work and some of it is just DIFFERENT.

Regarding scale, I think that is somewhat represented by skill level, no matter what skill or specialty is used.

Regarding different. Please do point out any interpretation of the rules which define a mechanic as being able to do things an engineer skill doesn't also cover. My current line of thinking is if a Engineer can rip the M-drive and pretty much any system on a ship down and put it back together, then why is a separate mechanic skill needed? The senior engineer will likely diagnose problems and supervise a junior Engineer who can be called the "mechanic" or "grease monkey".

Given how relatively rare Engineer is as a skill - I think the number of specialties needs to be reduced or maybe even completely eliminated.

Thank you for this input. I agree. This is a good discussion for the thread on Engineering.

Or... Profession (Mechanic).

That might work, but it would need to be clear they are more than a car mechanic.

This sounds good to me too.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Or... Profession (Mechanic).

That works best for me. I'd allow that someone who had Engineering (speciality) of some sort ought to be able to use it for a basic understanding of physical repair or maintenance. Just not specialised. A civic engineer would still need to call a plumber.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I've seen aerospace engineers take their cars to auto shops for repair.

One guy in a game could be a person that just repairs armor/shielding for spacecraft. Is there a bulkhead repair guy? A welder skill? Space Fab skill?

 

[-Daniel-]

Addressing Daniels post as well, another separate specialty is not my suggestion or to my liking. What do others think?

Just to be clear what I was thinking; in another thread I suggested this be combined with a reduction in the total Engineering specialties. I suggested Engineer (Ship Drive Systems), Engineer (Ship Support Systems), and Engineer (Mechanic). This would reduce our total count from two skills and four specialties to one skill and three specialties. This would resolve the call some had about needing 4 specialties to run the ship. Now they would only need two. This would remove Mechanic as a separate skill. Seems like a win for both concerns to me.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I've seen aerospace engineers take their cars to auto shops for repair.

One guy in a game could be a person that just repairs armor/shielding for spacecraft. Is there a bulkhead repair guy? A welder skill? Space Fab skill?

I NEVER work on my own car and I AM an Aerospace Engineer. BUT, I have friends sitting right next to me to enjoy tearing down cars on the weekends and rebuilding them etc.

I think that level of specialization is way beyond the desires of an RPG. Medical is the same way. Do you really want a Neurosurgeon working on your broken leg? No, but the game doesn't get that granular.

That is what we are dealing with here, how granular do we want to go?

Personally, I think when MGT1 did the Engineer Specializations, they went too far. I would keep Mechanic and Engineer as single, unspecialized skills.

Mechanic is used on Vehicles and "mundane" stuff and Engineer is saved for the Jump Drive etc.

Power Plant and M-Drive is mostly Engineer but could also be worked (perhaps with a Bane) by a Mechanic who had been working on a starship for a while. An Army vehicle Mechanic is going to be mostly clueless when it comes to fixing the Power Plant on a Starship.

I might even be wiling to agree that Electronics should just assume Computers, Sensors and Remote Operations without having to have them Specialized... In the 1970s, Computer and Electronics were separate, but not today and certainly not by TL9 or so.

(Wow, talking myself out of my own specialty...)

 

[phavoc]

I've always seen Mechanic as separate from Engineering. An engineer would be able to work on ship systems, but not so much on say vehicles and such. A Mechanic could do basic maintenance on the ship systems (maintenance, plumbing, some electrical), but you woudn't want a mechanic fixing the sensor system or jump drive (probably like you wouldn't want the engineer to fix the air/rafts collision avoidance system).

They are similar, but different. You could also say Engineering 1 gives you an automatic Mechanical 0, and vice versa. That way there's some crossover but still leave them separate.

 

[grauenwolf]

We use mechanic for jury rigging equipment and dealing with small pieces of alien tech.

We use engineer for keeping the spaceship running.

 

[FallingPhoenix]

If you reduced or removed the specialties in Electronics, Engineer, Mechanic, you could then just apply a positive or negative modifier (or boon or bane) based on the PCs background.

If so, you could define Electronics as anything involving wiring, Mechanic as moving parts, and Engineer as the starship-centric ones (J-Drive, M-Drive and Gravitics, Fusion plant). Obviously there would be some non-starships with some of these systems, but Engineer could still apply, and this is where you could really use the background part ("A how-to video?!?! But I thought you said you could fix grav drives!" "I fixed the QRF-3000 on the Imperial G-Carrier hundreds of times, but the MRT-700 on this hunk of junk trader is a completely different layout!").

Actually, this discussion is kind of reminding me of the nearby one about the Science skills...

 

[Meeko100]

Mechanics-General understanding of how machines work, and how to fix them. A nonspecific knowledge of things that revolve around moving stuff. Car parts, Jammed Doors, Light Construction, etc.

Electronics-General understanding of how electrical devices work and how to find a problem. Fixing simple circuitry problems, understanding the setup of a sound system, very basic understanding of robotics, etc.

Engineering- Specialized skills pertaining to special crafts. Civil Engineering, Designing a Mechanical device from scratch, Understanding the complicated circuitry of the guts of a robot/ship computer, Knowledge on how to care for a ships various drives.

That seems reasonable. But, it may be that under these definitions they may be so general that anyone would reasonably have Mechanics 0 and Electronics 0.

I'd honestly just fold the 2 skills into Engineering as Engineering(Mechanical) and Engineer(Electronics). Cut down on total skills and have Engineer become the general tech skill instead of having 3 general tech skills.