MC British Army List (Issues)

[Stormrider]

Lord David the Denied has already brought up some issues with the list and I've been finding a few myself. I don't mean this as a complaint, criticism or to be taken badly. Sorry I'm only covering the Brits, I'm pretty new to the game but feel free to point out issues with other lists, it's all about balance after all. I would like to identify key areas of contention and either provide an explaination or errata, and possibly identify house rules for those who don't agree. I'll try to keep editing this post to keep it upto date but feel free to post issues you find and opinions, hopefully we can drag Matt into it too (sorry Matt! lol).

1 - Mortars

Issue: Many sources state the rifle and command section have mortars. I believe they are 51mm and 81mm, these are omitted.

Current Verdict: There are plans to replace at least the 51mm mortars with UGL's which can act in the same way (and can also fire the assortment of flares and such like).

2 - MBT LAW

Issue: Rifleman sections are required to 'replace' a minimi with an MBT LAW if they want anti-armour weaponry. This gives several issues as the MBT LAW is a one-shot weapon and no account is given for a) other squad members carrying additional LAWs and b) once the LAW is fired, the soldier is weaponless and left to make the tea...

It also seems unfiar to give 1 soldier a minimi and MBT LAW, both pretty bulky...

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Remove the 'one-shot' trait from the MBT LAW. This is the current house rule me and Rick play to, it's not perfect but it was a quick fix.

2 - Change the text to "Up to one Soldier in each Fire Team may replace their L85A2 with an L86A2 LSW for +0 points or carry an MBT LAW for +25 points." So that the soldier can carry an L85 or L85 and MBT LAW or L86.

3 - To account for other section members carrying additional LAW's in addition to option 2, make the MBT LAW 'two-shot'.

3 - Land Rovers

Issue: Magically enough, an 8-man rifleman section seems able to pile into a 5-man land rover. I'm not the only one thinking that with weapons and kit bouncing all over that 8 men in the back of a land rover may get 'cosy'?

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Change the text to "The section may be mounted on board a Saxon for +60 points, a Warrior for +140 points or upto 2 Land Rovers (only 1 if 2nd fireteam removed) for +30 each points." So that you have 1 land rover per fire team.

2 - Roofrack, trailer, rope and skis?

4 - Striker CVR(T)

Issue: Only carries 5 Swingfire missiles, however, sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV102_Striker) state that it carries 5 reloads. In a six turn game (with possible longer games) it would be useful to be able to reload. Also, the 'Swingfire' text on the Striker states "Regardless, only one Swingfire missile can be fired in every Shoot action" yet the missile is 'slow' infering only 1 per turn. I can't find any information on the rate of fire for the missiles though there is some suggestion it can 'volley fire'. I now read this as 1 per shoot action as it has 5 missiles and I'm never firing the same one twice (unless it reloads).

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Perform a ready action to load the remaining 5 missiles into the launcher.

5 - Manouevre Support Section

Issue: This shouldn't exist, there's no such thing in the British Army. The closest thing that really exists is an ad-hoc "section" formed of GPMG teams in the SF role. That's three men operating a GPMG on a tripod.

Source: http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0029.html

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Remove from list entirely.

2 - Alter to form fire teams of GPMG gunners.

3 - Consider it a future creation/alteration, assuming there is anything to suggest this?[/b]

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Manouevre Support Section.

This shouldn't exist, there's no such thing in the British Army. The closest thing that really exists is an ad-hoc "section" formed of GPMG teams in the SF role. That's three men operating a GPMG on a tripod.

It should look something like this:

GPMG SF-role Section. Cost X points.

Fire Team 1: 1 GPMG team.

Options: Add up to two further GPMG teams for X points each.

 

[Foxmeister]

Manouevre Support Section.

This shouldn't exist, there's no such thing in the British Army.

Quoted from the BFE:Modern Combat introduction.

Battlefield Evolution: Modern Combat is set in its
own ‘alternate’ reality. You will see many weapons and
units that are easily recognisable in the real world, but
we have also added many ‘what-if?’ items, from weapons
that were tried but never adopted, to future designs that
have not yet seen warfare.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Relevence?

Regards,

Dave.

 

[Stormrider]

"weapons that were tried but never adopted, to future designs that
have not yet seen warfare"

if you can show it was tried or intended to be tried then you have a case, otherwise I'll br writing the stats for my cruise missile firing elephant troop transports...

 

[Foxmeister]

Relevence?

Regards,

Dave.

I would've thought that was patently obvious.

In the Mongoose BFE:MC "alternate reality", the British Army does have a manoeuvre support section!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

if you can show it was tried or intended to be tried then you have a case, otherwise I'll br writing the stats for my cruise missile firing elephant troop transports...

Which of course you can under the terms of the OGL......

Regards,

Dave

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I would've thought that was patently obvious.

In the Mongoose BFE:MC "alternate reality", the British Army does have a manoeuvre support section!

Regards,

Dave

I'm sorry, but I just have to roll my eyes at this move on. :roll:

 

[hegemon]

if it doesn't exist then what is that on the far right of the diagram in that link?

 

[Mr Evil]

and why no jackals !!!!! infact the british army has stuff they are phasing out,,, yet the new in current use stuff isnt evan in the list !!!!!! crazy....

 

[Lord David the Denied]

if it doesn't exist then what is that on the far right of the diagram in that link?

Because the "support section" in that out-of-date, inaccurate list refers to the company's GPMG teams. Not some gaggle of LMG gunners and grenadiers.

 

[Stormrider]

if it doesn't exist then what is that on the far right of the diagram in that link?

Because the "support section" in that out-of-date, inaccurate list refers to the company's GPMG teams. Not some gaggle of LMG gunners and grenadiers.

Indeed, that list is, I'm told, over 10 years old and does only refer to GPMG teams.

 

[Rick]

Of course, what nobody has yet said is that the MC British Army List is a representative list of 5 different lists. Armoured Infantry, Mechanised Infantry, Light Infantry, Territorials and Airmobile Infantry. Each type of Infantry is slightly differently equipped and slightly differently organised, even down to the number of men in a section. The list is an attempt to cover the whole range in one go, of course there are going to be a few discrepancies.

 

[Rabidchild]

LordDavidtheDenied, what I'm hearing from you is that you disagree with Foxmeister's points. It's difficult to tell tone on the internet, your posts seem to be confrontational, is that your intended tone?

 

[hegemon]

The army's new fire support platoons are a "gaggle of LMG gunners and grenadiers." as well as GPMG teams.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Lord David the Denied has already brought up some issues with the list and I've been finding a few myself. I don't mean this as a complaint, criticism or to be taken badly. Sorry I'm only covering the Brits, I'm pretty new to the game but feel free to point out issues with other lists, it's all about balance after all. I would like to identify key areas of contention and either provide an explaination or errata, and possibly identify house rules for those who don't agree. I'll try to keep editing this post to keep it upto date but feel free to post issues you find and opinions, hopefully we can drag Matt into it too (sorry Matt! lol).

1 - Mortars

Issue: Many sources state the rifle and command section have mortars. I believe they are 51mm and 81mm, these are omitted.

Current Verdict: There are plans to replace at least the 51mm mortars with UGL's which can act in the same way (and can also fire the assortment of flares and such like).

the original Evo ruleset suggested light artillery strikes wer emortars, but that doesn't jibe with the fluff in the new book...

2 - MBT LAW

Issue: Rifleman sections are required to 'replace' a minimi with an MBT LAW if they want anti-armour weaponry. This gives several issues as the MBT LAW is a one-shot weapon and no account is given for a) other squad members carrying additional LAWs and b) once the LAW is fired, the soldier is weaponless and left to make the tea...

It also seems unfiar to give 1 soldier a minimi and MBT LAW, both pretty bulky...

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Remove the 'one-shot' trait from the MBT LAW. This is the current house rule me and Rick play to, it's not perfect but it was a quick fix.

2 - Change the text to "Up to one Soldier in each Fire Team may replace their L85A2 with an L86A2 LSW for +0 points or carry an MBT LAW for +25 points." So that the soldier can carry an L85 or L85 and MBT LAW or L86.

3 - To account for other section members carrying additional LAW's in addition to option 2, make the MBT LAW 'two-shot'.

I'd vote for option 2 there...

3 - Land Rovers

Issue: Magically enough, an 8-man rifleman section seems able to pile into a 5-man land rover. I'm not the only one thinking that with weapons and kit bouncing all over that 8 men in the back of a land rover may get 'cosy'?

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Change the text to "The section may be mounted on board a Saxon for +60 points, a Warrior for +140 points or upto 2 Land Rovers (only 1 if 2nd fireteam removed) for +30 each points." So that you have 1 land rover per fire team.

2 - Roofrack, trailer, rope and skis?

There's a few points where the transport assets a squad cann take won't carry the whole squad - land rovers for rifle sections, German Jaeger squads can only get a single marder or puma for example. And the US Army list clearly lists 1 Bradley per fire team

4 - Striker CVR(T)

Issue: Only carries 5 Swingfire missiles, however, sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV102_Striker) state that it carries 5 reloads. In a six turn game (with possible longer games) it would be useful to be able to reload. Also, the 'Swingfire' text on the Striker states "Regardless, only one Swingfire missile can be fired in every Shoot action" yet the missile is 'slow' infering only 1 per turn. I can't find any information on the rate of fire for the missiles though there is some suggestion it can 'volley fire'. I now read this as 1 per shoot action as it has 5 missiles and I'm never firing the same one twice (unless it reloads).

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Perform a ready action to load the remaining 5 missiles into the launcher.

no real comment on the reload suggestion, but the note that the Striker can only fire one swingfire per turn is to differentiate it from the units that can fire more than one missile in a single action from a limited supply, such as most aircraft and SAM batteries like the Tunguska.

5 - Manouevre Support Section

Issue: This shouldn't exist, there's no such thing in the British Army. The closest thing that really exists is an ad-hoc "section" formed of GPMG teams in the SF role. That's three men operating a GPMG on a tripod.

Source: http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0029.html

Current Verdict: None yet

Options:

1 - Remove from list entirely.

2 - Alter to form fire teams of GPMG gunners.

3 - Consider it a future creation/alteration, assuming there is anything to suggest this?[/b]

While it's far from a pirmary source, the recent Ross Kemp in Afghanistan documentary series featured british infantry operating in Afghanistan with fire support from a small number of troopers mounted in land rovers, carrying GMPGs and Javelins (designated Fire Support Group in the show), so there may be some basis in reality for it.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

If that's true, re-write the unit to reflect reality. The GPMG section needs to be added anyway, it's a real unit with real uses on the table.

 

[Mr Evil]

i liked the old card sytem all these army lists feel wrong to me.

im currently trying to reorganise my pla to the new list, its not as easy as i whanted it to be

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Interesting to note: I just looked at the org chart Stormwind linked to, and it clearly lists a support section, with the following text below:

Note: (1) In Mechanised & Light Bns a fourth 'Manoeuvre Support Section' with 2 x GPMGs in the light role and is carried in the existing platoon transport. Sustained Fire tripod equipment for the Man Sp Sect GPMGs is carried by the CQMS. The 51mm Mortar men from Pl HQ are grouped with this fourth section which is commanded by a Corporal but controlled by the Pl HQ.

Now, granted the MGP Support section is armed wholly differently, but the precedent appears to be there.

 

[Rick]

Interesting to note: I just looked at the org chart Stormwind linked to, and it clearly lists a support section, with the following text below:

Quote:

Note: (1) In Mechanised & Light Bns a fourth 'Manoeuvre Support Section' with 2 x GPMGs in the light role and is carried in the existing platoon transport. Sustained Fire tripod equipment for the Man Sp Sect GPMGs is carried by the CQMS. The 51mm Mortar men from Pl HQ are grouped with this fourth section which is commanded by a Corporal but controlled by the Pl HQ.



Now, granted the MGP Support section is armed wholly differently, but the precedent appears to be there.

Absolutely, it was and, I believe, still is there. However, that particular list is for the British Army in the 1980'-1990's; there have been at least 2 re-organisations of the British Army since then and I believe that the weapons used in the support sections have changed, unfortunately, I can't find any proof of this, as yet.