Matching the Show - Ideas Wanted!

[Foxmeister]

you can have a g'quan that fires off bore - called a refit, as only really one g'quan does that in the show.

Sorry, but that is a very poor justification at best. Any Whitestar can "skindance" but when we see it in the show it appeared to be a one-off too and an *extremely* dodgy one too at that! Given the situation, skindancing Whitestars should be an Admirals trait at best, not a stock ability, yet it is there.

"Oh it takes years to master, but I can reprogram the onboard computer in 30 seconds" - worst "Star Trek" moment in the whole show!

Just because we only see one G'Quan fire off bore doesn't mean that it's the exception that proves the rule - in every other case, the G'Quan is closing with an enemy and therefore it's more than likely they will fire straight ahead.

IMHO, refits count for absolutely nothing unless you are playing in a campaign - in a pick up game, they can't be used so might as well not be there. Can I take a refitted G'Quan to a tourney? Didn't think so....

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

it is there but how often do you see skindancing whitestars in games

also they may be approaching directly but if I had the ability to I would prefer to approach at an angle and fire off said angle than go straight at an opponent.
G'quans couldnt shoot off bore in theory anyway without hitting the forward prongs of their own ships.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Example 1:

If thats not 'off bore' than I don't know what is

There are a lot of things a player might wish for but can't have - like a G'Quan that can fire off bore *as they do in the show*, but we can't have everything can we!

To that I answer:

Hi guys,

A quick question for you.

Have you ever seen a ship do something in the TV series that you could not replicate on the table in CTA? We have a 'ships do funky things' chapter in the forthcoming Powers & Principalities, so if there is something you would liek to see, shout out!

Don't worry about going into game stats - just let us know what you would like to see. . .

As it currently stands, I don't think the WS needs any other tricks to add to its already impressive repertoire. However, personally, I wouldn't mind if the Whitestar was given Vree style SM, but if that was the case it would need to be balanced by losing something elsewhere (perhaps drop Agile and down to 1/90 or 2/45)


Regards,

Dave

The idea for the slide was to try and represent something that is seen in the show. I, personally, like the idea, as it gives a 'vector based' combat feel *without* using vector based combat.

 

[Da Boss]

it is there but how often do you see skindancing whitestars in games

quite often - usually getting a free ram by "failing" the CQ check :roll:

 

[Foxmeister]

G'quans couldnt shoot off bore in theory anyway without hitting the forward prongs of their own ships.

Errhh, no! We see G'Quans firing *two* beams - one from each prong, something else that isn't represented in the game!

http://www.babtech-onthe.net/quicktime/narnws.mov

Look at the way the Shadow vessel moves about in the beams, yet they stay on target!

Another clip....

http://www.babtech-onthe.net/quicktime/shadlegs.mov

Here, notice how there are 3 G'Quans with twin beams, each of which converges on the Shadow vessel - this would be *impossible* with ACTAs boresight mechanics. All the ships here are clearly flying straight towards the Shadow vessel, yet the beams most definitely move off bore.

Sorry - no justification, whatsoever, for the boresighted single beam that we currently have, unless of course it's 3 Narn cruisers each with a F arc refit *and* a twin beam refit.


Regards,

Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

Example 1:

If thats not 'off bore' than I don't know what is

A most excellent example! I think the phrase is "hoist by ones own petard"!

Regards,

Dave

 

[lastbesthope]

They would then be commited to at least a partial movement in the direction of the turn. This might not be something the player wishes.

There are a lot of things a player might wish for but can't have - like a G'Quan that can fire off bore *as they do in the show*, but we can't have everything can we!

As l33tpenguin wrote, and in response to your comment about wanting what we 'can't' have, the whole purpose of this thread is to find out what we want in the game.

you can have a g'quan that fires off bore - called a refit, as only really one g'quan does that in the show.

Sorry, but that is a very poor justification at best. Any Whitestar can "skindance" but when we see it in the show it appeared to be a one-off too and an *extremely* dodgy one too at that! Given the situation, skindancing Whitestars should be an Admirals trait at best, not a stock ability, yet it is there.

It wasn't reallya one off, we only see the manoeuvre in one episode, but multiple WS carry out the manoeuvre.

Also, Lennier seemed to be of the opinion that doing it manually would be possible with additional traiing.

There are lots of things we only see once n the show, does that mean they shouldn't be reflected in the rules.

Examples of one-offs:

Bonehead manoeuvre
JP Bombing
'Draining' effect of the Traveller Ancient Vessel
Mora'Dum
Telekinesis (I'm thinking of Talia's penny, we never quite find out how Lyta was slapping the bloodhounds)

Basically, if it can ahppen once, it can happen more than once.

LBH

 

[Foxmeister]

There are lots of things we only see once n the show, does that mean they shouldn't be reflected in the rules.

You missed my point entirely - I was making reference to the absolute undeniable fact that a G'Quan can fire off bore as per the on screen evidence, and I was using skindancing as an example of something that is "core" (i.e. not a refit) yet only seen once in the show.

Still, skindancing is a bag of cr*p though for the "free ram" you get if you fail!

Regards,

Dave

 

[l33tpenguin]

There are lots of things we only see once n the show, does that mean they shouldn't be reflected in the rules.

You missed my point entirely - I was making reference to the absolute undeniable fact that a G'Quan can fire off bore as per the on screen evidence, and I was using skindancing as an example of something that is "core" (i.e. not a refit) yet only seen once in the show.

Still, skindancing is a bag of cr*p though for the "free ram" you get if you fail!

Regards,

Dave

I agree with the whole boresight argument, I don't mind the G'quan being boresighted for game play reasons. The same applies to the Omega. The only difference is that the Omega is a good, solid ship that lives up to its PL while the G'quan is underpowered and suffers from limited defenses, lacking anything other than some extra damage (which isn't that great considering most bigger ships die to crits while they still have damage and crew left). Upgunning the G'quan (and making it more survivable) would offset the suckness of boresight.

 

[katadder]

ok so it can fire down or up then, but it cant fire sideways or it would hit itself and even in that picture the vorchan is in front, just down from it . and yes it has 2 beams, but thats in the same line so hitting the same target.
if you want g'quans tilting on their sides to get foreward arcs then obviously they cant fire side weapons as the ships in the wrong angle.
or we should perhaps bring in a roll during movement where you can swap the crits from one side to the other, (i did actually suggest this in original 2e playtesting) so lose port weapons and enemy is on port, not a problem, just roll.

 

[l33tpenguin]

ok so it can fire down or up then, but it cant fire sideways or it would hit itself and even in that picture the vorchan is in front, just down from it . and yes it has 2 beams, but thats in the same line so hitting the same target.
if you want g'quans tilting on their sides to get foreward arcs then obviously they cant fire side weapons as the ships in the wrong angle.
or we should perhaps bring in a roll during movement where you can swap the crits from one side to the other, (i did actually suggest this in original 2e playtesting) so lose port weapons and enemy is on port, not a problem, just roll.

Its actually at an angle and downward, but, regardless, its not bore. I'd rather not add in a roll system for ACtA.

The best example of this is in 'Now for a word' the Narn cruiser is still turning to face the centauri when it opens up with its forward laser battery.

As or the 2 beams, it doesn't really matter. it could be 30 beams coming out of the front of the G'quan, the AD system is designed to represent a weapon system, individual emiters or barrels or such.

 

[silashand]

Back on topic: as a Drakh player, the option to virus bomb planets would be in character :twisted: ...

Cheers, Gary

 

[Da Boss]

don't they already have that on one of the dreadnoughts?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Definitely it was the molecular pulsars!

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Observe at 3:20. This is the White Star in WWE shooting down the Shadow Fighters before they can use the nasty fusion bomb to blow up B4. That looks remarkably like a beam to me.

 

[Locutus9956]

thats something of a cut up clip though Im fairly certain thats in fact the last part of that scene (or possibly even a different scene entirely, cant remember if the shadows tried that routine more than once during the show...) I can clearly recall the opening volley of that engagement at long range was with pulsars....

 

[Clanger]

With all this talk of sliding maneuvers. It reminds me of the FASA Renegade Legion: Interceptor movement rules where you had heading and facing. Which I liked and thought was good.

Why not use this movement idea for agile ships. Make it a special action. Ship moves in straight line and then uses its turn arcs for facing.

 

[Court Jester]

Having a ship slide is easy. Make it a special action. Move the ship however you want and then turn it at the end of its move to face the direction you want to fire. After it has fired turn it back the way it was travelling before it made that final about-face.

 

[locarno24]

IMHO, refits count for absolutely nothing unless you are playing in a campaign - in a pick up game, they can't be used so might as well not be there.

Which is a nice suggestion anyway; when talking about capital ships it's rare that any two are exactly the same.

Some will have been through maintainance and refit cycles ahead of others, some will have been refitted after battle damage, etc. The ability to get some refits in a pick-up game would be nice.



Equally, burger is right about admirals; Armageddon-priority ships with admirals are quite a nice buy; one battle point for a couple of stat increases on an armageddon-point ship is fine and one I'm happy to pay. But it just makes it obvious how overcosted other admirals are.

If giving an armageddon ship an admiral costs a battle point, how can it be justified costing a war point for a smaller ship?


In fact, the two could be made into the same thing; Admiral costs one point below, a named non-"generic redshirt" veteran captain costs two points below (but isn't 0-1).

Amongst the 'trait' options is the ability to pick some refits for the ship - so for an extra skirmish point you could have your ships slightly modified along the campaign refit lines.

 

[silashand]

don't they already have that on one of the dreadnoughts?

That's Dilgar, not Drakh... ;-)

Cheers, Gary

 

[Da Boss]

sorry misread