# Massive damage

#### SnowDog

##### Mongoose
Hello,

Justa a quick question. Somehow it is a bit unclear for me if the failed fort check after receiving a massive damage causes instant death or going to -1 hp. Could someone help me with this?

TIA

Instant death at -10.

This question was asked some time ago, the answer from above was instant death. (Of course that's nothing a fate point can't cure )

SS

Another question on the topic

The check difficulty is it 10 + 1/2 the damage received? If so the difficulty is always over 20 being that the damage has to be above 20, is this correct?

Yep. It's 20pts of damage over and above any DR, so if 28pts of damage is done to a DR6 wearin' target, then 22 damage is dealt and the FORT save is 10+(0.5x22)=10+(11)=21 (!).

For the record, -1HP is "dying", not "dead". The thing is, who's gonna help the bad guys out? If they get taken out in this manner, your average mook is goin gto jsut be effectively dead unless something magickal keeps him from snuffing it. So, for all intents and purposes, all the values indicate "instant death" but it's really not beacuse characters arent' dead until reaching -10HP.

OK, thanks a lot!

Sutek said:
For the record, -1HP is "dying", not "dead". The thing is, who's gonna help the bad guys out? If they get taken out in this manner, your average mook is goin gto jsut be effectively dead unless something magickal keeps him from snuffing it. So, for all intents and purposes, all the values indicate "instant death" but it's really not beacuse characters arent' dead until reaching -10HP.

But I thought a failed massive damage save meant you ended up at -10, meaning you are dead, dead, dead! (Unless you have a Fate-point to spare) Maybe you were talking about something else here, but it sounded a bit confusing.

Sutek said:
Yep. It's 20pts of damage over and above any DR, so if 28pts of damage is done to a DR6 wearin' target, then 22 damage is dealt and the FORT save is 10+(0.5x22)=10+(11)=21 (!).

This Conan game is pretty damn gritty... And those high-level sneak-attackers must be DEADLY.

Trodax said:
But I thought a failed massive damage save meant you ended up at -10, meaning you are dead, dead, dead! (Unless you have a Fate-point to spare) Maybe you were talking about something else here, but it sounded a bit confusing.

Nope. That's totally incorrect. It may be that you're thinking of another game or something possibly. Conan (page 171 of the original printing; not sure of the page # in AE) states that this is your equation:

MD FORT DC = 10 + (half damage dealt)

If the save passes, no effect.

If the save fails, HP are set to -1 and the character is dying regardless of previous HP.

If the save fails and some or all of the damage was non-lethal (eg. unarmed attacks) then the character is rendered Unconcious (and helpless) for 3d6 rounds.

Oh, they must have changed it between printings then. Here is what the AE says (page 163).

MD FORT DC = 10 + (half damage dealt)

If the save fails, HP are set to -10 and the character is dead regardless of previous HP. He may spend a Fate point to be "left for dead".

If the save fails and some or all of the damage was non-lethal (eg. unarmed attacks) then the character is rendered Unconcious (and helpless) for 3d6 rounds.

Whoa....that's friggin harsh, but at least the revision involves the "Left for Dead" rule.

Hmmm...

Not sure if I dig that too much or not. Let me see...<looks through book>

LFD rule states that a when character reaches -10 he is "dead to the casual observer". Changing the MD rules to put peopl eto this state makes sense from a story perspective, I suppose, but the rest of the LFD rule starts to confuse things a bit (unless that's changed as well in AE).

If a -10 LFD character is healed 1 or more points of damage within 1 hour of being LFD, he is considered stable and at -9 HP. Key here is stable.

If he get's no aid/healing, he needs to make a DC20 FORT save after 1 hour. Passing this and he is considered stable and at -9 HP. Key here again is stable.

Stable is classified as being between -9 and -1 HP (normally Dying) and passing the 10% test to become stable. Failing this roll means the character loses 1 HP and if he drops to -10, he's flat out dead. SO, it's easier to die when between -9 and -1 HP, it just takes a couple of rounds longer. :shock:

Recovering on one's own makes things worse by stating that there is a 10% change to become concious each hour and failing this roll loses the character 1HP. Stable as noted above that on the same page means that the character no longer loses HP, so I'm not sure how this all tracks. It's seems like one bit contradicts the other.

What's more is that there's no mention of this MD change or changes to other parts of the damage and healing section listed in the PDF that Mongoose just put out denoting the changes between 1st printing and AE.

I don't know what to tell ya, Trodox. I read it the first time but didn't disect it. It seems like a better route woul dbe to have reaching -10 HP by any means equate to LFD. Once a character is there, he rolls to see if he dies per those rules and if he does, too bad. That makes the most sense to me, and it seems to reflect some of the changed (at lest in terms of MD) that were made in the AE.

:?

Sutek said:
Whoa....that's friggin harsh, but at least the revision involves the "Left for Dead" rule.

Yeah, I agree, it makes for pretty deadly combat, especially since the MD Fortitude save is so high. The AE strongly recommends that you save your Fate points to be able to survive these situations.

Sutek said:
LFD rule states that a when character reaches -10 he is "dead to the casual observer". Changing the MD rules to put peopl eto this state makes sense from a story perspective, I suppose, but the rest of the LFD rule starts to confuse things a bit (unless that's changed as well in AE).

If a -10 LFD character is healed 1 or more points of damage within 1 hour of being LFD, he is considered stable and at -9 HP. Key here is stable.

If he get's no aid/healing, he needs to make a DC20 FORT save after 1 hour. Passing this and he is considered stable and at -9 HP. Key here again is stable.

Stable is classified as being between -9 and -1 HP (normally Dying) and passing the 10% test to become stable. Failing this roll means the character loses 1 HP and if he drops to -10, he's flat out dead. SO, it's easier to die when between -9 and -1 HP, it just takes a couple of rounds longer. :shock:

Recovering on one's own makes things worse by stating that there is a 10% change to become concious each hour and failing this roll loses the character 1HP. Stable as noted above that on the same page means that the character no longer loses HP, so I'm not sure how this all tracks. It's seems like one bit contradicts the other.

What's more is that there's no mention of this MD change or changes to other parts of the damage and healing section listed in the PDF that Mongoose just put out denoting the changes between 1st printing and AE.

I don't know what to tell ya, Trodox. I read it the first time but didn't disect it. It seems like a better route woul dbe to have reaching -10 HP by any means equate to LFD. Once a character is there, he rolls to see if he dies per those rules and if he does, too bad. That makes the most sense to me, and it seems to reflect some of the changed (at lest in terms of MD) that were made in the AE.

:?

Not sure that I'm exactly getting what you're saying here. In the AE you can always spend a Fate point to be LFD when you end up at -10, no matter how you get there.

Trodax said:
Not sure that I'm exactly getting what you're saying here. In the AE you can always spend a Fate point to be LFD when you end up at -10, no matter how you get there.

Not the case in the original printing. They must have made a fix in the AE and didn't mention it in the PDF that listed the changes between the two.

Thanks...

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