Man-Portable Artillery vs. Ship
- Thread starter Scalding
- Start date
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
Fovean, far-trader and Rick, thanks for pointing out the Traders and Gunboats supplement! Now I know why I have so much info on this stuff in my head but don't know where comes from. The starship deckplan section is the word on Traveller ship stucture. The terminology is what I was looking for as well as game mechanics.
Essentially interior wall (partitions) and sliding doors (think Star trek) are easy to blow man sized holes through. Bulkhead walls are more difficult but still possible. The damage points needed are to make that hole but remember that is a cumulative amount. You don't need to do 100 or 1000 points in one shot. Energy weapons and explosions burn away the material while slug throwers take out random chunks in a wider space hence why slug throwers need more damage to interiors and ineffective on bulkhead or iris valves/hatches. Also remember the rules were implying that non-man sized holes are being created. That means things on the other side can be damaged from consoles to people to your hydrogen fuel to support infrastructure.
I more than know players too often love using the biggest weapons they can somehow attain and not have any restrictions on their use. Many will balk if they can't fire an Abrams tank cannon inside a starship! For that, they want the world indestructable except the enemy just like video games. Really, if you think PGMPs are shipboard weapons then so is a pocket nuke!
Scalding, what kind of cargos are your players carrying that they regularly expect to be accosted by battle-suited pirates? Must be great especially if they can afford a 110KCr killbot carrying the most deadly personal weapon next to a fusion gun! The only worlds that will not have issues with such a drone are Law Level 1 (one) and 0 (zero). Truthfully though, if you allow it and plan to send waves of TL 14 battle dress on them then it works otherwise I'd say vacc suited marauders are their biggest concern.
Essentially interior wall (partitions) and sliding doors (think Star trek) are easy to blow man sized holes through. Bulkhead walls are more difficult but still possible. The damage points needed are to make that hole but remember that is a cumulative amount. You don't need to do 100 or 1000 points in one shot. Energy weapons and explosions burn away the material while slug throwers take out random chunks in a wider space hence why slug throwers need more damage to interiors and ineffective on bulkhead or iris valves/hatches. Also remember the rules were implying that non-man sized holes are being created. That means things on the other side can be damaged from consoles to people to your hydrogen fuel to support infrastructure.
I more than know players too often love using the biggest weapons they can somehow attain and not have any restrictions on their use. Many will balk if they can't fire an Abrams tank cannon inside a starship! For that, they want the world indestructable except the enemy just like video games. Really, if you think PGMPs are shipboard weapons then so is a pocket nuke!
Scalding, what kind of cargos are your players carrying that they regularly expect to be accosted by battle-suited pirates? Must be great especially if they can afford a 110KCr killbot carrying the most deadly personal weapon next to a fusion gun! The only worlds that will not have issues with such a drone are Law Level 1 (one) and 0 (zero). Truthfully though, if you allow it and plan to send waves of TL 14 battle dress on them then it works otherwise I'd say vacc suited marauders are their biggest concern.
Reynard said:
After reading all this I'd agree that PGMPs are not for aboard ship. However it didn't seem obvious after first reading of the rulebook. Many RPG systems explicitly state that certain weapons are restricted, illegal, or otherwise hard to come by. Traveller has that information somewhat hidden in the planetary law codes and is otherwise very freeform. Since the drone description specifically called out the PGMP, that was the item of interest.
The group has 6 player characters. Three of them became nobles (Knight, Count, and Duke), and most of them mustered out with lots of ship shares. The characters went through 7 to 9 terms, generally in two careers, and obviously favored mental/social over physical, so other than the Brigadier, they're not very combat capable. They pooled their shares to get the free trader, and decided to get a bigger mortgage than absolutely necessary in order to have some cash on hand to outfit the ship and purchase their first cargoes.
When looking through the trade goods, they decided that it would be better to deal in high value goods, even if they could afford fewer of them. The hazard is that high value transactions can attract unwanted attention. So they decided to spend some on turret weapons and other defenses. Since they couldn't add armor and have thrust 1, they figure that any pirate will be able to force a boarding action, which means that's where they have to stop them.
They just bought a ~35 MCr ship, so spending ~200k on defense doesn't seem at all unreasonable. The tricky part is figuring out what things are actually useful to buy.
Some earlier versions of Traveller had specialized ship softwareScalding said:
for the defence against boarders and highjackers. The software
was able to do things like manipulate the grav plates of the ship
(hard to fight under 6+ G, especially when it changes between
"ceiling" and "floor" ...), to flood sections of the ship with inert
gas (or otherwise make breathing difficult), to turn on and off
the lighting, and so on - it basically turned the ship into a (se-
mi-) intelligent combattant allied with the characters. Some-
thing like this would be very high on my list, and it should not
be difficult to come up with the stats for it (plus, it is a lot of
fun to play for the referee).
The intent of the Main Rulebook is to be independent of setting - though law level restrictions (codes) could have been better defined in this regard. CSC has more information of restrictions (3I setting, IIRC, even though it crosses the intent of the plain cover books).Scalding said:
Sounds quite reasonable to me.Scalding said:
As to the PGMP armed robot. Yeah, its a bit, er, overkill. But, its also more along the lines of 'assured kill'. The players should be in Vacc suits and the ship depressurized. What's a few interior or even hull breaches in comparison to loosing the ship, cargo, and/or their lives.
So add some hull patches kits to the shopping list
- and some programming instruction to the Droid to make sure it avoids shooting up critical ship parts.Also, the Pirates will probably recognize the PGMP (at least after the first shot) - and give it, and their own intentions, some serious consideration (and respect - for the gun and the crazy crew
).Like "tell those guys to deactivate the droid, or we will turnBP said:
their ship into a cloud of vapour - no, wait, let's blow it up
anyway" ?
I mean, once the pirates have reduced the defenses of the
ship to the point where they can board it, they normally are
in a position which enables them to demolish it with their own
ship's weapons.
Just saying ...
I believe they've settled on a Gauss Rifle for the drone, and yes, they'll all be in vacc suits with grappler boots. The General got combat armor as a mustering out benefit, and bought an ACR. Someone else will be sitting in a back room, remotely operating the drone. We'll see how it goes.
Of course Rust has a good point, and frankly there's not much the characters can do to prevent that situation from occurring. Their ship doesn't have the speed to outrun anything, or the armor to stave off an attack until they can jump. That leaves fighting or surrendering.
"Never give up, never surrender!"
So that leaves fighting, with the idea being to explain to the pirates that it's best to just leave you alone, in terms that are plainly understood. The crew knows it can't match the pirate in open space, so let them get close. Let them try to board. And then, when it's just you and them in the darkness, explain to them that they had better things to do with their time - whatever's left of it.
Sigh, makes that PGMP sound like a good deal, after all.
Of course Rust has a good point, and frankly there's not much the characters can do to prevent that situation from occurring. Their ship doesn't have the speed to outrun anything, or the armor to stave off an attack until they can jump. That leaves fighting or surrendering.
"Never give up, never surrender!"
So that leaves fighting, with the idea being to explain to the pirates that it's best to just leave you alone, in terms that are plainly understood. The crew knows it can't match the pirate in open space, so let them get close. Let them try to board. And then, when it's just you and them in the darkness, explain to them that they had better things to do with their time - whatever's left of it.
Sigh, makes that PGMP sound like a good deal, after all.
Age of Sail pirates usually just took the cargo and left
crew and passengers unharmed, they normally only
used force when there was resistance. But back then
the cargo usually had more value to the pirates than
the ship, while in Traveller the ship often is much mo-
re valuable than the cargo it carries, and stealing and
selling the ship (or its most valuable components) can
be more tempting than taking the cargo - and leaving
the stolen ship's crew alive complicates the operation,
but does not increase the profit. This means that sur-
render can be no option if the pirates want the ship,
and from this perspective a droid armed with a PGMP
or the threat to activate a self destruction nuke could
become an interesting idea ...
So, in the end it probably depends on your setting's
kind of piracy. If the pirates are after the cargo, my
recommendation would be surrender (and beginning
to plan revenge ...), but if they are after the ship in-
stead, surrender could just be another word for suici-
de.
crew and passengers unharmed, they normally only
used force when there was resistance. But back then
the cargo usually had more value to the pirates than
the ship, while in Traveller the ship often is much mo-
re valuable than the cargo it carries, and stealing and
selling the ship (or its most valuable components) can
be more tempting than taking the cargo - and leaving
the stolen ship's crew alive complicates the operation,
but does not increase the profit. This means that sur-
render can be no option if the pirates want the ship,
and from this perspective a droid armed with a PGMP
or the threat to activate a self destruction nuke could
become an interesting idea ...
So, in the end it probably depends on your setting's
kind of piracy. If the pirates are after the cargo, my
recommendation would be surrender (and beginning
to plan revenge ...), but if they are after the ship in-
stead, surrender could just be another word for suici-
de.
far-trader
Mongoose
rust said:
IF one can sell a ship or major components. That will need a large operation, chop shops in safe ports, etc. All of which may occur but certainly not a given nor hinted at in the setting.
rust said:
Have to disagree, my (limited) understanding is historical pirates valued crew and would offer them a chance to swear allegiance and join. Needing crew for a prize ship, beyond the few that could be spared from their own ship to oversee the recruits. And passengers could be sold as slaves in many markets. Surrender was far from suicide, though it might be a fate worse than death to some.
As you say though, let the setting and fun dictate
Since there have to be safe ports where pirate ships arefar-trader said:
supplied, maintained and repaired, I would consider it
probable that the yards there also buy illegally obtained
ship components - but this is a setting thing.
True for many historical pirates, but I would find it difficult
to imagine it for a Traveller setting, especially the slavery
part.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
I wonder if the pirates thought to invest in combat drones? If the world is indestrucable I could see them also having PGMPs plus grenade and rocket launchers since only the crew of a ship are vulnerable to damage. TL 12 Combat Armor seems reasonable too. I mean they're in the business to win.
If that doesn't describe a motley pirate crew it most certainly describes the other more dangerous threat to space, privateers. A privateer is a mercenary unit contracted by a government to raid shipping either to disupt supplies and/or return a portion of the profit to fund the government. These guys are usually ready to take on the cream of shipping and I'm sure Scalding's players and their ship would be renowned enough to take on. If you have a big gun you most likely have announced such to discourage run of the mill pirates from even trying. To privateers, you issued a challenge!
It would be great if there was more material about boarding action in the MgTraveller universe. Then again MgT K.I.S.S.ed it with a simple boarding action chart and suggesting a regular personal combat scenario with no rules for collateral ship damage. They could take the material we quoted here and updat to MgT mechanics.
If that doesn't describe a motley pirate crew it most certainly describes the other more dangerous threat to space, privateers. A privateer is a mercenary unit contracted by a government to raid shipping either to disupt supplies and/or return a portion of the profit to fund the government. These guys are usually ready to take on the cream of shipping and I'm sure Scalding's players and their ship would be renowned enough to take on. If you have a big gun you most likely have announced such to discourage run of the mill pirates from even trying. To privateers, you issued a challenge!
It would be great if there was more material about boarding action in the MgTraveller universe. Then again MgT K.I.S.S.ed it with a simple boarding action chart and suggesting a regular personal combat scenario with no rules for collateral ship damage. They could take the material we quoted here and updat to MgT mechanics.
Rick
Mongoose
The simple boarding action chart is excellent for most purposes - especially if you're running fleet actions or military style campaigns and need a quick way to sort out the effects - sort of like an ACTA:Traveller game! However, I really do think there is a niche to be filled here - a roleplaying guide to boarding actions and dirty tricks to make life difficult for boarders! It'll probably be most useful for referrees running a small-scale campaign with maybe 1 trader and a small group of evil-minded players! :twisted:
1 section would be on the personal weapon damage values we've mentioned, another would probably have a rules section covering fairly common occurences, and then you could have a 'central supply catalogue' of anti-piracy equipment to install on the ship. A lot of possibility in that, I think! :twisted:
1 section would be on the personal weapon damage values we've mentioned, another would probably have a rules section covering fairly common occurences, and then you could have a 'central supply catalogue' of anti-piracy equipment to install on the ship. A lot of possibility in that, I think! :twisted:
My name is Ian Whitchurch, and I wrote the Sunbeard Declaration.
I've also been involved with Famile Spofulam, and I designed the Elephant Mounted Particle Accelerator Weapon specifically to punch through the armour of landed Pirate ships.
Its pretty easy to crack the armour of a civilian ship in Trav, under whatever design system. The problem is you can't stop a partially streamlined ship from landing anywhere it wants - and that gives you the problem of having the portable artillery where you need it.
I've also been involved with Famile Spofulam, and I designed the Elephant Mounted Particle Accelerator Weapon specifically to punch through the armour of landed Pirate ships.
Its pretty easy to crack the armour of a civilian ship in Trav, under whatever design system. The problem is you can't stop a partially streamlined ship from landing anywhere it wants - and that gives you the problem of having the portable artillery where you need it.
