Low lottery

[Red-24]

So I ran Traveller at a local con today. The players loved the low berths concept and the low lottery. However, I found the survival rate to be pretty brutal.

From what I could find in the rule book, it's simply a Medic roll modified by the low berther's Endurance. I allowed either Education or Intelligence for the Medic roll. Even at that, 4 of 7 low passengers died on the first voyage.

Am I missing some other modifiers for bringing crew out of low berths? Does the ships computer help? Is it just a regular 8+ roll.

What are other people's experiences?

 

[F33D]

At worst it is a Routine (+2) task. At best it is Easy (+4) And you bump the time increment down one to make it an Easy (+4) task or Simple (+6) task...

 

[locarno24]

F33D is referring to the "Going Faster or Slower" rules in skill checks. Although I think it's two time increments you have to move - you only get +1 per 'band' slower.

That said, yes, low berths are bloody lethal for people who don't know what they're doing, and if they don't (medic/0 or less and no particular experience) then I'd make them check every time to prove a point, same as I'd make them make pilot checks the first time they flew a new ship.

There's no indication what the base difficulty for using low berths is; you can rule it to be easy or routine if you've clearly got experience doing it. It's the same as landing the ship - in theory (according to the core rules) landing the ship is a +2 test, where failing means "the ship has landed improperly or even crashed" - now either the skies of the imperium are full of falling starships or there's some wiggle room intended in the rules.

It all comes back to the key rule on skill checks - Traveller is an RPG, not simply a dice game, and the rules state that:

The Referee should only call for checks:
• when the characters are in danger.
• when the task is especially difficult or hazardous.
• when the characters are under the pressure of time.
• when success or failure is especially important or interesting.

Other things that can help - other than medic skill - is an expert medic software running on a ship's computer terminal in the low berth bay. For the cost of the software compared to anything starship related, I'd assume it'd be almost standard practice. For that matter an autodoc isn't a bad buy.

 

[F33D]

For that matter an autodoc isn't a bad buy.

Yep. For ships carrying passengers a Doctor/Medic would probably be required by law. Consider that you are totally cut off from outside help for at least a week at a time. When you consider the crew position cost (life support also) having even an autodoc 14 installed when a ship is built is affordable.

"an Autodoc (14) is capable of reanimation, provided no more
than 15 minutes have passed since the subject’s death."

Advertising that fact could help attract passengers for the ship...

 

[locarno24]

Well, "average" crew requirements - which I'd assume would reflect any 'legal standards' if you wanted to operate fully within the Imperium's/other YTU political body's legal framework rather than being a tramp trader - do require medics at "One per 120 passengers".

Of course, that leaves open the definition of what a suitably qualified and equipped 'medic' is.

 

[F33D]

if you wanted to operate fully within the Imperium's/other YTU political body's legal framework rather than being a tramp trader - do require medics at "One per 120 passengers".

Just being a "Tramp" doesn't mean that when you go to a star port to take passengers that are waiting for the next ship, you aren't subject to the laws. But, maybe you are thinking about smugglers, a la Han Solo getting paid by Obi & Luke to get them off the planet?

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

So I ran Traveller at a local con today. The players loved the low berths concept and the low lottery. However, I found the survival rate to be pretty brutal.

From what I could find in the rule book, it's simply a Medic roll modified by the low berther's Endurance. I allowed either Education or Intelligence for the Medic roll. Even at that, 4 of 7 low passengers died on the first voyage.

Am I missing some other modifiers for bringing crew out of low berths? Does the ships computer help? Is it just a regular 8+ roll.

What are other people's experiences?

Yep, the RAW for low berths are very brutal.

Personally I am not convinced that a form of transport that kills half of those who use it would be allowed, so have always allowed an easy modifier (+4), which, with a decent medical skill (modified by int or edu) should make it pretty survivable. If that roll fails, I allow an endurance roll as a "saving throw". Basically, problems with low berths are likely to be GM plot lines, not just random character killers.

Egil

 

[far-trader]

Yep, the RAW for low berths are very brutal.

Personally I am not convinced that a form of transport that kills half of those who use it would be allowed...

I'd agree, unless extremely desperate or without any other choice (convict transport leaps to mind for the latter, refugees for the first). However, my issue then (and generally anyway) is the ticket price is far too high.

Anyway, CT was never that brutal. Roll 5+ and get a DM +1 for Medic (which you'd better have), and DM of -1 for passenger End of 6 or less (which my Medic would refuse to take on). So really a 4+ roll and they live. That's 9 in 11 of surviving. Fair odds for the type of transport it was modeled on.

So, to the OP's original concerns, I had a look again at the MgT rules. In my opinion you should:

1 - Have a qualified Medic attending (imo a minimum Skill DM +2 and Stat DM +1 = DM +3 so far)

2 - Better ships (not all though) will have better built and maintained low berths for a Situational DM +1

3 - The Timing DM was mentioned, but imo it doesn't apply. This is one of those tasks that is only doable in a set time. I'd say the 10-60 minute line. Emergency low berths would be built to take advantage of the Timing DM by dropping the insertion time by a line to the 1-6 minutes frame, at the cost of having to thaw with the DM -1 for the rushed insertion. Frozen Watch low berths would be purpose built to use a rushed extraction in a combat replacement situation suffering the same DM -1. In both cases I'd make the special low berths (Emergency and Frozen Watch) of the better quality for the DM +1 to offset the penalty for the unusual usage.

Note: I've since changed my mind about the specifics for the Timing DM issue above, see my next following post.

So I'd make it a Routine Task for an additional DM +2 to hit the CT mark for typical Free Traders (which should not have the better built or maintained low berths) with a decent Medic.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I agree with the previous 2 posts.
No way in Hades that any insurance company would allow anything this deadly to be part of a standard transportation system. Legal action and competition would take the death rate for low births to virtually zero. Even a 1% chance of death would be too high IMHO for industry standard transportation.
IMO I think this is another one of Mark Millers concepts of linking his traveller universe with sea travel in the mid-late 1800's. Where steerage passengers over long hauls have an uncomfortably high chance of not making it to their destination. Just a guess, but it fits his original concept.

So realistically, I think most might agree that such a deadly form of paid travel would never make it past any corporate oversight board. But as a pure sci-fi/fantasy role playing game that is Traveller, the high chance of croaking in low birth does have a bit of old world adventure “feel” to it.

Anyway, IMTU a medic has to roll a critical failure, then the passenger has to roll a critical failure on based on an endurance check to outright die in low birth.

 

[IanBruntlett]

I don't like it. So I don't use it

 

[F33D]

The long and short of it is if it is was a 3% chance of dying (2 on 2D6), only those who felt that they stood a higher chance of dying if they didn't travel would go this route.

Based on planet of departure & destination world you can figure out what type of person this might be. In reality, this wouldn't be a routinely available form of commercial transport...

 

[Fovean]

I've softened the effects of failure - rather than outright death, I have the low passengers suffering incapacitating sickness for negative Effect in hours less their End DM in half-hours. So a Medic reviving a low passenger with End 9 fails by 2; the passenger is sick for 1.5 hrs - which means during that time all tasks are Formidable and take one Time Increment longer. Sometimes for dramatic effect I let task difficulties get easier as time goes by (Very Diff at 50%, Diff at 75%, etc). Only a natural 2 kills (with a chance of revival possible if there's an autodoc on board or if the attending has Medic 3+).

 

[far-trader]

...IMO I think this is another one of Mark Millers concepts of linking his traveller universe with sea travel in the mid-late 1800's. Where steerage passengers over long hauls have an uncomfortably high chance of not making it to their destination. Just a guess, but it fits his original concept.

It's actually pretty much a copy from the Dumarest books iirc. And this topic has come up here (and other Traveller fora) before of course

http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=549708

 

[torus]

...IMO I think this is another one of Mark Millers concepts of linking his traveller universe with sea travel in the mid-late 1800's. Where steerage passengers over long hauls have an uncomfortably high chance of not making it to their destination. Just a guess, but it fits his original concept.

It's actually pretty much a copy from the Dumarest books iirc.

Yes and I think the death rate there was 15%! But clearly it varied substantially between individuals because Dumarest himself had survived many low passages.

 

[Hopeless]

Can you expand on the bit about time increments please?

Have a low berth or suspension capsule in use as a plot device in a game I'm running and I previously indicated that they needed to get it to a medical facility as the sleeper is afflicted with a nasty disease requiring professional treatment.
So far none of them have even tried waking her up and have gone along with setting up a separate battery to the cubicle so they could detach it from where it was located and move it to their own ship ala gravlifter (think Hand of Omega from a Seventh Doctor Who serial involving the Daleks and Ace oh and a school...)

 

[far-trader]

Can you expand on the bit about time increments please?

Presuming this is directed to me and not about the task mechanic Time Increment rules but about the low berths themselves...

Standard low berths (imo) require several minutes to prep and install a passenger and several minutes to prep and remove a passenger. In MgT this is the 10-60 minutes time line for the task. Half for install and half for removal. And it is an absolute time task*, there are not shortcuts or taking your time.

eg. You roll 4 on the D6 so it will take 40 minutes for this particular passenger due to various physiology patterns. Some passengers are easier to "freeze/thaw" than others, and it changes with their body chemistry depending on current health and diet and other variables. It is very rarely the same for an individual in successive trips. So prior to lifting the crew spends 20 minutes putting this passenger in the low berth, and it will require 20 minutes on arrival to remove them. If you want to make things more variable roll a D3 for each of the "freeze" and "thaw". And yes this means it will never be less than 10 minutes for each and 20 minutes total. I'm fine with that

Special cases are the Emergency Low Berth and Frozen Watch Low Berth, I've changed my mind (from above) about how I'd likely handle them:

The Emergency Low Berth is designed to "crash freeze" the occupant(s) and is pretty much automated and instantaneous. The trade off is an increased risk when "thawing" and the time frame is all in the "thaw" cycle being slightly longer and more complicated. A Medic for "thawing" is highly recommended, one is not needed or helpful for the "freeze" cycle. The task check is made at the time of "thawing" the patient.

The Frozen Watch Low Berth trades a longer more complicated "freeze" cycle for which a Medic is well advised. The time frame is all in the "freeze" cycle. The "thaw" cycle is automated and instantaneous. The task check is made at the time of "freezing" the watch. Failed checks can then be replaced with successes when installing the Frozen Watch to insure the full complement is revivable when needed.

In MTU anyway, more or less


* Somewhat like turning on a light switch, you can't do it faster or slower, there can be no Time Increment shift for the Task of "turn on light".

 

[CosmicGamer]

Don't know if this is in any of the pubs but here is my thoughts either from something I've read or just my own assumptions; some of which I'm just coming up with now and could easily be reevaluated based on your input.

All types of emergency, med, cryo and low berths have battery backup power (and surge/brownout protection) in case there is an interruption in ships power. Some are designed with batteries that can operate them for extremely long periods of time.

A Cryoberth or medical low berth is designed to be portable. This means a single person can easily disconnect it and grav lift portability is built in - no extra equipment needed.

Emergency low berths topically have a much longer battery life than other low berths. These low berths may not have been designed to be portable but are designed to be self contained and can be removed and transported with the proper tools and equipment.

Standard passenger low berths have more connections since they have remote monitoring via the ships systems and there are more security measures involved in disconnecting them. They would have an individual shorter life battery and also be hooked up to the ships standard emergency power which can be a bank of batteries or capacitors as well as solar, backup generator or any other power the ship is equipped for. These units are standardized and the equipment for transporting them is common. It's not unheard of to receive a passenger already in low berth and just swap out the units or to deliver a passenger without reanimating them and just getting a replacement low berth.

What really sucks is when the records of your low birth are botched and you get left in the corner of a warehouse until your auctioned off like a storage unit. :lol:

 

[Hopeless]

What I've found out going through the LBB1 to 9 books along with the core rules is that a low berth requires a Medic roll to either activate or to remove its sleeping occupant.

Nothing about whether its a routine or otherwise check although I have found that bit about time increments and as noted earlier in this thread the standard use would take between 1-6 hours so to gain a +1 this amps it up to twice this (don't have book handy to verify) unless the facility the occupant is being woken up within is of suitable TL.

So assuming a TL10 is required just to have access to low berth technology so gain a +1 per TL above this and aid another action from say an autodoc or assistant nurses.

So assuming it is routine nthen its a Medic check with a +2DM using the ship they have now doesn't have a medical bay so fortunately there's a medical facility nearby its just has a pirate ship floating between them...

Its a standard model Mining Vessel (Core rulebook) three of the characters have Medic skills but Karl Wagner's is through virtue of a wafer chip granting him Medic and Survival since he doesn't have those skills (being raised in space for the most part and thats not an excuse!) so he can't apply his so Layla Braun has Intelligence and Education at 9 with Medic at +1 whilst Jan Van Zeeman has Intelligence of 12 and Education of 13 with Medic skill at +1 (Not his forte!)

So they currently have his infant cousin slumbering in a low berth capsule currently hooked up in Jan's cabin and as they're trying to evade the pirate ship their ship takes a hit and the capsule starts warbling an alarm that its set off the awakening cycle and needs a medic available to complete the process or his cousin might die since she's in there to halt the spread of a neurological disease.
Having been given a data crystal with the procedue to save her life and with no hope of reaching the facility in time Jan decides to bit the bullet and with Layla's help (Company Lawyer) they try to save his cousin's life.

So say standard TL10 facilities thanks to the capsule being higher tech enough to offset the fact they don't have a sick bay aboard the mining vessel.

Jan takes point as he has the better overall abilities so a routine check (+2) with +1 for Jan's skill (Medic 1) and the better of his Intelligence or Education (both are +2) with Layla trying to help as an assistant (Both Int and Edu at 9 for +1 and Medic also at +1).

So currently Jan rolls 2d6+5 versus an 8 with a -2DM because of his cousin's illness do I treat Layla's adds as another +2 (1 for characteristic and another +1 for her Medic skill) or does she have to roll separately to see if she can help assist?

Found it!

So Layla tries to help using Medic with her skill of +1 and characteristic =1 she rolls 2d6 and gets 4+6 for 10 and a total of 12 (with her +2) under table at top of page 51 at the start of the skills section says with her effect of 4 (12-8=4) grants +1 to Jan Van Zeeman's efforts to save his infant cousin's life.

He rolls 2d6+5 (Int/Edu both are +2, Medic +1 and +2 for Routine check but with -2dm due to being in a fight and his cousin's illness that could mount to -4 actually!) with +1 from Layla he rolls a 3+4 for 7 with +5-4+1 for a total of 9!

He succeeds in bringing his cousin safely out of cryosleep but now has a fight on his hands keeping her alive long enough to reach the Gaian Medical Facility even as his comrades have an actual fight on their hands just evading their pirate foe!

 

[F33D]

Its a standard model Mining Vessel (Core rulebook) three of the characters ...

I have the Core Rule Book (in which this example doesn't exist). I did a string search. But, mine is (v2)...

 

[Hopeless]

Its a standard model Mining Vessel (Core rulebook) three of the characters ...

I have the Core Rule Book (in which this example doesn't exist). I did a string search. But, mine is (v2)...

Used the Seeker Mining Vessel from the core rules on page 115 with the picture on page 116 guess I really ought to stick to what its actually called!