Let me start by saying that I have been a DnD player for 9 years, my group is looking for a break. I have read most of the RQ2 core book and like the rules, more tactical and thoughtful than DnD for sure! One question i had is how many combats is a group of PCs expected to engage in on a daily basis? and on average how much time between combats in the same day. it would help me to tell them how to manage resources like healing and Magic Points. A Sorcerer seems very potent but with only 14 Magic Points he is good for maybe one combat, then he's spent, unless i am missing something glaringly obvious, which is possible. thank you in advance for any help.
Lost Noob
- Thread starter DDbuff
- Start date
I would say a few things.
1. RQ is not very class oriented, so just because you are a potent sorcerer doesn't mean you can't be an accomplished spear and shield guy too. This can help with the MP allocation.
2. If the MP situation is a real concern for the style of play you want to encourage in your game world (aka dungeon crawls, multiple encounters per day, etc.) you can always increase the Magic point recovery rate in your world. Maybe half MP recovery every hour, full recovery in two- or whatever works for you and your players.
3. Make the players decide when to conserve. If they know a dungeon crawl is coming they might want to duke it out for the first couple of encounters, saving their MPs for the big toughie that they are searching for. Or you can give them hints and insights (with rolls or without) to help them make these decisions.
EDIT: 4. Also, run a couple of test battles and you will see RQ2 battles don't last that long, 3-5 rounds on average for beginning level characters, so you shouldn't burn that many MPs. Also with the manipulation skill sorcerers don't need to spend tons of MP for a very potent spell, just cast them at the same time, add a couple of manipulations, and boom, a 4MP bomb. Spirit magicians, depending on how many Spirits they release, don't spend that much either, roughly 1MP per spirit. Divine magicians don't spend any MP, but have POW dedicated, so, the don't have as many MPs as they would normally. It's really common magic that eats up the MP's, and that does have to be managed, as it generally doesn't last that long either...
Having said that, I have done it both ways in games I have GMed and I find 2 Encounters per day a good average, with 3-6 hours in between encounters. I have seen stuff on line about using survival and perception rolls to decide the frequency and intensity of encounters. I like that idea and may incorporate it into my games as well. This makes the players more cautious when entering "the ruins they've been searching for" and, I find, hightens the stakes and the tension- especially because a string of bad dice can lead to a nasty PC splatter on the wall. Encourage at least one of the PC's to get some serious healing magic as the bad damage can get really bad really fast. And yes, Sorcerers, as they get powerful, get really powerful. Spirits (as you may have seen in some posts here) and Spirit magicians are potent as well, so be careful with their implementation in your games. They can be lethal against PC's with no skills in the area of spirit magic.
I'm sure you will get loads more good advice on here. Good luck, and Welcome!
1. RQ is not very class oriented, so just because you are a potent sorcerer doesn't mean you can't be an accomplished spear and shield guy too. This can help with the MP allocation.
2. If the MP situation is a real concern for the style of play you want to encourage in your game world (aka dungeon crawls, multiple encounters per day, etc.) you can always increase the Magic point recovery rate in your world. Maybe half MP recovery every hour, full recovery in two- or whatever works for you and your players.
3. Make the players decide when to conserve. If they know a dungeon crawl is coming they might want to duke it out for the first couple of encounters, saving their MPs for the big toughie that they are searching for. Or you can give them hints and insights (with rolls or without) to help them make these decisions.
EDIT: 4. Also, run a couple of test battles and you will see RQ2 battles don't last that long, 3-5 rounds on average for beginning level characters, so you shouldn't burn that many MPs. Also with the manipulation skill sorcerers don't need to spend tons of MP for a very potent spell, just cast them at the same time, add a couple of manipulations, and boom, a 4MP bomb. Spirit magicians, depending on how many Spirits they release, don't spend that much either, roughly 1MP per spirit. Divine magicians don't spend any MP, but have POW dedicated, so, the don't have as many MPs as they would normally. It's really common magic that eats up the MP's, and that does have to be managed, as it generally doesn't last that long either...
Having said that, I have done it both ways in games I have GMed and I find 2 Encounters per day a good average, with 3-6 hours in between encounters. I have seen stuff on line about using survival and perception rolls to decide the frequency and intensity of encounters. I like that idea and may incorporate it into my games as well. This makes the players more cautious when entering "the ruins they've been searching for" and, I find, hightens the stakes and the tension- especially because a string of bad dice can lead to a nasty PC splatter on the wall. Encourage at least one of the PC's to get some serious healing magic as the bad damage can get really bad really fast. And yes, Sorcerers, as they get powerful, get really powerful. Spirits (as you may have seen in some posts here) and Spirit magicians are potent as well, so be careful with their implementation in your games. They can be lethal against PC's with no skills in the area of spirit magic.
I'm sure you will get loads more good advice on here. Good luck, and Welcome!
Th OPs problem seems very gamist to me. You have a story and the players interact with it. It should be up to them to manage things, make mistakes, etc. in the face of the unknown. If they get into trouble, that's either their fault for pushing things along too fast or the GMs for not managing things better, depending on how you look at it.
Personally I'd hate to play in a game that was so deterministic that you knew you'd have three combats per day.
Personally I'd hate to play in a game that was so deterministic that you knew you'd have three combats per day.
How many combats per day? It depends where your party is. If you are in a chaos nest then you might get two or three. If you are in a major city then you probably son't get any. Travelling through the wilderness probably attracts 1 encounter every day or so, each encounter might result in combat. Travelling through troll lands singing that you are lonely elves might attract more.
As has been pointed out, not every encounter results in combat. In fact, set against powerful enemies, the party would probably hope that encounters don't end in combat.
Don't forget that the RQ eperience system is not combat-based. You get skill increases by using skills. Your experience boost is not dependant on what the combats were, although the GM might give you more if the scenario was especially dangerous. Looting the bodies of the fallen is a away of becoming richer, of course, but you shouldn't rely on that.
As has been pointed out, not every encounter results in combat. In fact, set against powerful enemies, the party would probably hope that encounters don't end in combat.
Don't forget that the RQ eperience system is not combat-based. You get skill increases by using skills. Your experience boost is not dependant on what the combats were, although the GM might give you more if the scenario was especially dangerous. Looting the bodies of the fallen is a away of becoming richer, of course, but you shouldn't rely on that.
I really shouldn't have to keep saying this: You can play the game any way you want to, and your permission is not required if he wants to use the rules in a "gamist" way.
Also, frankly, it is a completely legitimate question even in a story based game. Its not a question of the PCs "gaming" the story, but of the GM writing it, which is a very different matter. Even then, a sorcerer confronted with a situation would know how long his magical resources could be expected to stretch, and making the player aware of that makes things more realistic, not less.
In answer to the question, I have found that a sorcerer can manage two average combats with no trouble, but will be sweating in their third, unless they are close enough together that some durational spells have carried over.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Of course if you get hit early on by Tap POW, it could be a lot less.
Simulacrum
Mongoose
I hope they get the same buzz i did when first tried RQ instead of D&D - which I never played again.
Our group's RQ sessions almost always involved one or two decent fights per session, and if it was all talk and story it wouldn't feel quite right. But any big combat, or an extended dungeon trawl like Rainbow Caverns or Snakepipe Hollow (of venerable antiquity) invariably left a party having to find somewhere to rest up to recover magic points burned up particularly for healing, and often having to retreat out of the dungeon. One counter to this is allowing the party to be well stocked with MP storage devices and spirits, but better to find ways to remind them that to incapacitate an enemy and "persuade" them to do something that helps them conquer the next obstacle without combat is an ideal and interesting outcome from a fight.
In a sandbox world like Glorantha it's often OK to get half way through a "dungeon" and then think better of it. The roleplaying outcome of "we went there to kill the broo that had been stealing our cattle but they were too many and we ran away" is quite classic RQ in my experience, and adds to the character stories better than "but the DM threw in too many kobolds for a party of level 2 nuns so the scenario fell apart"
Recommend a decent hack and slash early on to get the feel of things, then a gentle introduction to the underlying idea that having to pick and choose your fights is hugely important and much of the fun. I guess a lot of D&D adventures are roleplaying/story oriented and nuanced these days too, but I'm sure there's still a great deal of new fun to be gained from abandoning Leveling up and Hit Dice inflation, XPs, and class boundaries. And you get to play in Glorantha if you want to.
Our group's RQ sessions almost always involved one or two decent fights per session, and if it was all talk and story it wouldn't feel quite right. But any big combat, or an extended dungeon trawl like Rainbow Caverns or Snakepipe Hollow (of venerable antiquity) invariably left a party having to find somewhere to rest up to recover magic points burned up particularly for healing, and often having to retreat out of the dungeon. One counter to this is allowing the party to be well stocked with MP storage devices and spirits, but better to find ways to remind them that to incapacitate an enemy and "persuade" them to do something that helps them conquer the next obstacle without combat is an ideal and interesting outcome from a fight.
In a sandbox world like Glorantha it's often OK to get half way through a "dungeon" and then think better of it. The roleplaying outcome of "we went there to kill the broo that had been stealing our cattle but they were too many and we ran away" is quite classic RQ in my experience, and adds to the character stories better than "but the DM threw in too many kobolds for a party of level 2 nuns so the scenario fell apart"
Recommend a decent hack and slash early on to get the feel of things, then a gentle introduction to the underlying idea that having to pick and choose your fights is hugely important and much of the fun. I guess a lot of D&D adventures are roleplaying/story oriented and nuanced these days too, but I'm sure there's still a great deal of new fun to be gained from abandoning Leveling up and Hit Dice inflation, XPs, and class boundaries. And you get to play in Glorantha if you want to.
I agree wholheartedly that gamers should play the type of game that is fun for them. D&D seems very 'gamist' to many RQ fans who feel that their style of play is better (I feel the same way) - but that is just an opinion. Let us not scare any noobs away from dumping D&D for RQ!
In fact the massive popularity of the Classic Fantasy monograph (soon to be full supplement) for BRP kind of proves that there are a lot of players who want the D&D experience, just with different (better - IMHO) rules.
That said, RQ has always had a class of magic item that stores either spells or magic points. There are rules for these in Arms & Equipment. There is also nothing to stop you from using something like MP Restoration Potions; such an potion would seem to me to be familiar ground for D&D players.
In fact the massive popularity of the Classic Fantasy monograph (soon to be full supplement) for BRP kind of proves that there are a lot of players who want the D&D experience, just with different (better - IMHO) rules.
That said, RQ has always had a class of magic item that stores either spells or magic points. There are rules for these in Arms & Equipment. There is also nothing to stop you from using something like MP Restoration Potions; such an potion would seem to me to be familiar ground for D&D players.
GeneralPanic said:
Yes, clearing out a nest of monsters or a Temple to an enemy deity would require multiple combats over a fairly short time. Many is the time when we have run to the next encounter before our Battle (Spirit) Magic went down. But, they are fairly rare kinds of scenario.
Even attacking a fortified house, you should have an encounter (Guards), another one inside (more guards), probably another (tough guards) and a final one (target of the raid and his guards). They might be within half an hour, from start to finish, and the party's Magic Points would be depleted at the end. It's unusual to get more than this.
GeneralPanic said:
This was never a problem with us as we had looted Magic Point storage from our fallen foes. If you have more than 50 MPs stored then that PC is probably fairly buffered against MP loss in a single encounter and can regenerate MPs using spirits etc before the next one. RQM does away with this slightly, I think, by not having many MP storage devices.
GeneralPanic said:
I have been in many RQ scenarios where "we went, we ran away, we went back, we ran away again, we went back again" was a description of the scenario. Our notorious "Acid Pits" location was one such place.
GeneralPanic said:
Having limbs mangled in a fight is also a good way of reducing the number of times you want combat.
So, again, it depends entirely on where the party is adventuring.
almightygm
Mongoose
As has been alluded to, combat in RQII is much more deadly than D&D. There are no "Healing Surges" or "Second Winds" to help you survive indefinitely. My players cringe every time the damage dice are rolled, and this is a good thing (for me, anyway 
Fear forces strategy.
Especially be careful in RQII when the characters are outnumbered. Combat in RQII is ruled by CAs, and if you run out when outnumbered, you're screwed, even against inferior opponents (without some sort of other mitigation).
Fear forces strategy.Especially be careful in RQII when the characters are outnumbered. Combat in RQII is ruled by CAs, and if you run out when outnumbered, you're screwed, even against inferior opponents (without some sort of other mitigation).
almightygm said:
Amen. ANY character can be brought down by numbers in RQ. It is very realistic in this way. In fact, if out numbered more than 2 to 1 in close combat, you better have some really good (possibly loaded) DICE. The CA stack up quick, and even if a PC has vastly superior skills, they can be left open for free attacks. Then someone with a dagger and no damage modifier gets a critical, ignores armor and maximizes damage, and "boom" the PC has lost a weapon and usage of an arm. It can snowball quickly. CM's become very key (and very fun!) in these outnumbered scenarios however, as the PC will have to disarm one opponent, over extend another, then blind another, just to get the breathing room to take some one or two opponents down and even the odds a bit. It's what makes the system balanced, fun, and fair...IMHO
Thanks to everyone for their input it has helped my understanding the game and how i will plan encounters. If i may bother the forum gurus with one more question: when in the combat narration are GMs calling for an initiative roll. Is it once both sides are aware of each other, once enemies close to within a certain range...? Here's an example to better explain my question. During a test of rules and mechanics i pit two melee PCs against two melee PCs. they are fighting in a round sand filled arena. they start about 10m away from each other. I give them a chance for some smack talk and drawing weapons. then i called for an initiative roll. I ranked them on my tracking sheet and asked the strike leader what he wanted to do. being to far away to melee he delayed his action; all the fighters delayed. no one was willing to use one their precious CAs to move, knowing that it will give the other team first attack advantage. Should i wait to ask for initiative until they are in melee range, have a missed an obvious rule/game mechanic or is this just the game as intended? I come from a DnD background where one round allowed for a move and an attack, seems a hard transition for my warriors. thanks again for your input.
First I will say, ultimately it's up to the GM and what he/she feels comfortable with.
So, having said that, in an Arena situation I would start taking initiative as soon as the gates go up. Trash talking can be done on every CA and I would usually have the players armed coming into the arena. By monster coli rules, pcs would cast magic before entering and NOT once in the arena- but let's assume we are NOT using monster coli rules, just CORE.
At some point someone has to move. I would recommend charging. Now the charging rules are a little hairy, but the only way to workout how it's gonna be done in your games is to play it out. And the damage mod step up can be a pretty big advantage opening up a fight. The charge also has the advantage of the defender only being able to dodge (and thus loosing an attacking CA) or standing fast. Working out what standing fast entails will require some house ruling for your game (just my guess). Charging a pike man with a shortsword is probably not a smart move, but to close up to 50m quickly, charging is an effective strategy.
Characters that don't want to worry about this stand off can also choose the spear as thier weapon and just carry a couple. They can then throw them at the opponent until the opponent is forced to action...or dead. Daggers, same thing (maybe as an off hand weapon?). Or charge.
But initiative I roll usually as enemies become aware of each other (perception rolls), surprise (following surprise rules, even if one side is unaware of the other, they can still roll initiative with the -10 SR modifier). Or as soon as someone in an exchange or conversation decides to attack.
That's how I do it, but I'm sure others have other methods. I'm sure some of them are great! I, personally, can't wait to read them...
So, having said that, in an Arena situation I would start taking initiative as soon as the gates go up. Trash talking can be done on every CA and I would usually have the players armed coming into the arena. By monster coli rules, pcs would cast magic before entering and NOT once in the arena- but let's assume we are NOT using monster coli rules, just CORE.
At some point someone has to move. I would recommend charging. Now the charging rules are a little hairy, but the only way to workout how it's gonna be done in your games is to play it out. And the damage mod step up can be a pretty big advantage opening up a fight. The charge also has the advantage of the defender only being able to dodge (and thus loosing an attacking CA) or standing fast. Working out what standing fast entails will require some house ruling for your game (just my guess). Charging a pike man with a shortsword is probably not a smart move, but to close up to 50m quickly, charging is an effective strategy.
Characters that don't want to worry about this stand off can also choose the spear as thier weapon and just carry a couple. They can then throw them at the opponent until the opponent is forced to action...or dead. Daggers, same thing (maybe as an off hand weapon?). Or charge.
But initiative I roll usually as enemies become aware of each other (perception rolls), surprise (following surprise rules, even if one side is unaware of the other, they can still roll initiative with the -10 SR modifier). Or as soon as someone in an exchange or conversation decides to attack.
That's how I do it, but I'm sure others have other methods. I'm sure some of them are great! I, personally, can't wait to read them...
DDbuff said:
if the combattants are prepared by consensus to cautiously approach each other, I'd assume the melee doesn't start from a game mechanics point of view untill they are in melee range. Of course if anyone wants to use missile weapons or charge, those usualy take precedence.
Simon Hibbs
