Learning new skills

[Darkjoy]

So on page 59 of the core book there is an explanation how new skills can be learned.

Now I am wondering how other people handle this, do you a) treat is as learning by doing so you train a skill during a jump? Or b) do you require down-time in which the character expends resources and time to learn the skill (goes to school and doesn't travel=makes money)?

I have a few doubts if the learning new skills is balanced enough, I could take 1 term and 1 year of game time to learn almost every skill at level 1, this feels too easy.

 

[Shiloh]

You'd need some way of gaining the knowledge. An instructor, or a training tape. You'd need materials requisite to the learning. These might cost money.

If you can access the requisite assets while you're in J-space, you can count the time towards learning, I'd say. Tricky to learn things like Animal (Riding) in a Type-S...

There are a *lot* of skills, when you consider the multifarious specialisations available for some.

You'd need to be able to dedicate 5 years without an income to training to learn all those skills, and find the teachers and pay their fees on top of that. Bear in mind that Level 1 isn't that accomplished.

 

[Supplement Four]

Keep in mind the skills learned during the game should mirror the time it takes to earn skills during chargen.

Chargen in Traveller, after all, is just a meta-game way of playing several years of a character's life--all the time leading up to the point where the character enters the game as played by the player.

Traveller is a fairly unique game in that sense.

A character shouldn't, say, spend 8 years in the Marines, fighting for the Imperium on different worlds, averaging X number of skills per year only to see that average blown out of proportion when the character is taken over by the player.

 

[Shiloh]

Keep in mind the skills learned during the game should mirror the time it takes to earn skills during chargen.

Except that in chargen, the character is doing a lot more than spending time learning skills. Much of the time is spent in routine tasks which don't improve skills overmuch.

A character shouldn't, say, spend 8 years in the Marines, fighting for the Imperium on different worlds, averaging X number of skills per year only to see that average blown out of proportion when the character is taken over by the player.

Apart from in basic, that "X" doesn't often get over "1"... because the Marine is spending time just maintaining skills and fitness and doing the bull work that militaries fill their troopers' time with to build unit cohesion (and just keep them out of trouble). Casual games of spades in free time and unscientific bar brawling won't teach you what Traveller recognises as skills.

*If* a character can spend their time solely learning at their own pace with quality teaching resources, they darn well should learn faster than chargen. Which isn't necessarily to say that the original rules will suit you and your game... I think they're a bit too fast.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

Having made over 100 MGT characters, it seems they average 0.3 to 1 skill level per year.

With instruction and proper facilities*, it should be possible to utilise jump downtime to get a 0-level skill in about 3 months, if done intensively.

*Hard to do Gun Combat on a spaceship, but Melee (Unarmed) would be possible.

A years worth of hard adventuring should be enough to put that level 1 skill up to level 2 if it is in common usage. Going from 3 to 4 should take a lot longer, maybe several years.

Maybe characters should be forced to split their training weeks between say 4 different skills, maybe 3 that they use commonly and 1 as a hobby.

 

[B_Steele]

*Hard to do Gun Combat on a spaceship

Nah...shooting ranges and virtual simulator programs could do the trick. Hell, blank-fire training drills would be enough I would think; if your instructor was good enough.

-Bry

 

[Xoph]

I use training weeks somewhat like XP. Each player to learns one week of skill training every week of gametime. On top of that for every session they play they learn one training week of what ever skill they use most. I negotiate with the players which skill this is. This method should lead to PCs trying to do whatever they want to learn/get better at.
On the topic of whether it is realistic, probably more so then most RPGs definetly less so then real life. On the other hand, I don't have a ships library(I learn a lot on the net and it is probably better than that), a holographic interface(you can learn a lot about the behavour of a horse or chocobo or what ever riding you want to learn from a good simulation), and a week to blow using it to train.

 

[zozotroll]

Klaus, just think of a Wii rifle trainer in your room. With just a little advance over what we have now, they should work very well.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Also don't forget that Gun Combat is more than shooting straight. You also learn how to field-strip the weapon, make minor or possibly major repairs to the weapon, ammunition and possibly power packs.

All of those things could be practiced on a ship, even if you don't get to practice firing the weapon.

 

[Darkjoy]

It would seem most of you like variant A, learning on the job / during transit AND not spending valuable resources learning new skills.

Second question, has learning new skills come up often during your games?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Not really, I try to keep them too busy to train...

Seriously, we often just skip over the week in Jump Space and if they don't specifically ask about training, I don't mention it either. If they don't say it, it didn't happen that week...

Maybe they picked up a good book on the last planet and forgot to study, whatever.

 

[zozotroll]

Not yet. The players realize that it will be a long time comeing.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

Klaus, just think of a Wii rifle trainer in your room. With just a little advance over what we have now, they should work very well.

I am a crack shot with a Wiimote, , but I wouldn't fancy going mano o mano with Clint Eastwood or Lee Van Cleef (or even Private Pike). Simulation alone won't cut it, no matter how useful it is.

A few weeks training with a competent martial artist in a cargo bay, though, and I might account for myself reasonably well in a startown bar brawl.

 

[Shiloh]

I use training weeks somewhat like XP. Each player to learns one week of skill training every week of gametime. On top of that for every session they play they learn one training week of what ever skill they use most.

!!! So they do nothing *but* training? In gametime? You must run some pretty bookish sessions...

I feel you've missed one of the points of Traveller, viz there *is* no XP. You aren't *meant* to get much tougher than when you mustered out into the game.

Not really, I try to keep them too busy to train...

Seriously, we often just skip over the week in Jump Space and if they don't specifically ask about training, I don't mention it either. If they don't say it, it didn't happen that week...

Maybe they picked up a good book on the last planet and forgot to study, whatever.

I like that approach. Travellers are not (necessarily) inveterate self-improvers. Lacking a 'Willpower' stat, basing it on the players' "slacking" is as good a mechanic as any.

 

[Xoph]

!!! So they do nothing *but* training? In gametime? You must run some pretty bookish sessions...

I feel you've missed one of the points of Traveller, viz there *is* no XP. You aren't *meant* to get much tougher than when you mustered out into the game.

Yes and every week I write lesson plans. :shock: I can't believe you are serious.
I don't roleplay any of the training. I just ask what skill they are training in their spare time. How many of us our working as we read this yet just learned a lot about Traveller. The skill training system in the core book talks about training per week, but doesn't say how or what the PCs do to train. It takes a long time to train any skill and none of them will make the PCs super powered level 28 D&D characters. Besides I don't think the point of Traveller is to have a game without XP.

 

[-Daniel-]

I just have to say, I find this is one of those subjects that receives more angst on the forums then it deserves. Most of the games I have run in the past do not focus on the “I need to level” attitude so I do not expect that a switch to MGT will change that.

If a player wants to add to their character, fine we will work it out. But it does not come up as often as things like:

Where can I buy Battle Armor?
Where can we get a new ship from?
How come that Alien is trying to kill us?
How much does the job pay?
You want us to go where?

Daniel

 

[Darkjoy]

I just have to say, I find this is one of those subjects that receives more angst on the forums then it deserves. Most of the games I have run in the past do not focus on the “I need to level” attitude so I do not expect that a switch to MGT will change that.

If a player wants to add to their character, fine we will work it out. But it does not come up as often as things like:

Where can I buy Battle Armor?
Where can we get a new ship from?
How come that Alien is trying to kill us?
How much does the job pay?
You want us to go where?

Daniel

True, but when a player's first comment on the game is: how do I get better? I better have a good answer. I think you're right about the "I need to level" attitude, we've been playing DnD for 14 years now and I guess the levelling has become ingrained in our gaming :lol:

 

[-Daniel-]

True, but when a player's first comment on the game is: how do I get better? I better have a good answer.

And I do, I tell them "You play the game." :wink:

Daniel

 

[atpollard]

*Hard to do Gun Combat on a spaceship

Nah...shooting ranges and virtual simulator programs could do the trick. Hell, blank-fire training drills would be enough I would think; if your instructor was good enough.

-Bry

In Striker, the Starship Hull was something like 25 cm of hardened steel - If MGT retained that, then just shoot at the wall in the cargo bay (but beware of flying lead).

 

[Supplement Four]

Except that in chargen, the character is doing a lot more than spending time learning skills. Much of the time is spent in routine tasks which don't improve skills overmuch.

If a merchant character spends 8 years in the merchant marine, he's doing much the same activity as he is serving as a crewer on a tramp freighter.

He could be--probably does. Depends, of course, on the character's background.

Character generation in Traveller is just a short-hand way of playing. Instead of six second rounds, you play in yearly or 4-year blocks. That's the "round" of play.

It's a snapshot of a character over a specific period of time in the character's life.

Therefore, the general rule is: Skill increases should mirror the rate seen in character generation.

A GM who runs a combat oriented game might justify a slightly increased rate than character generation. But, the rule of thumb should be that rate observed in chargen.



Another thing to think about. Skills, the higher they get, should be harder to learn. Going from Skill-1 to Skill-2 should be easier than, say, going from Skill-4 to Skill-5.

This mirrors chargen too, as a MGT character ends up with a lot of skills in different areas but only a few at the high levels.