Learning combat styles and common magic.

[Antalon]

I would appreciate some clarification, so I'll jump straight in with my query

Page 12 defines combat styles and common magic as Common Skills.

First: Why are combat styles or skills not outlined or summarised at all in the skills chapter - I guess the necessary information is in the character creation and combat chapter. But I have found some confusion over the term 'combat skill' and combat style - please confirm that combat skills / styles are treated as a skill? Why is 'unarmed' specifically listed in the skills chapter?

Second: As a Common Skill, the rules imply you can just open a new combat style at base percentage. However, page 53 (Training Costs Table) lists Combat Skill under the heading 'learning a New Advanced Skill to Base Score'. Please confirm whether combat skills / styles are opened as new advanced skills (per page 51), and whether they must have / require training before being available (per page 52)?

Third: The rules for learning new common magic appears appear contradictory (page 107) - the text notes that a teacher is necessary who requires some form of payment (money or otherwise). However, the table 'Learning Common Magic' refers to spending Improvement Rolls, not monetary value. The optional rule (paying for common magic spells) lists a monetary value as an alternative to paying Improvement Rolls. So, under the standard (non-optional rules) do you need to spend money (or similar) and Improvement Rolls to learn a new common magic spell of increase the magnitude of a known spell? If so, how much money does the training cost?

I appreciate that the actual 'cost' may be in terms of a service and may vary by culture. But, I see Improvement Rolls as the spending of personal time and effort to master or improve a new skill / ability.

I hope these queries are clear, thanks for your help.

 

[Loz]

First: Why are combat styles or skills not outlined or summarised at all in the skills chapter - I guess the necessary information is in the character creation and combat chapter. But I have found some confusion over the term 'combat skill' and combat style - please confirm that combat skills / styles are treated as a skill? Why is 'unarmed' specifically listed in the skills chapter?

Combat skills and styles are one and the same. In reality they fall between Common and Advanced camps and, because of the combat system, have very specific effects. The Combat chapter is where they need, should and do received attention; the Skills chapter would feel somewhat unbalanced otherwise.

Unarmed is listed there because it is, unlike Combat Styles, the innate ability of a person or creature to defend himself. Its there for fisticuffs and bar fights and, as such requires less attention than armed combat which is usually accompanied by rigorous training and practice.

Second: As a Common Skill, the rules imply you can just open a new combat style at base percentage. However, page 53 (Training Costs Table) lists Combat Skill under the heading 'learning a New Advanced Skill to Base Score'. Please confirm whether combat skills / styles are opened as new advanced skills (per page 51), and whether they must have / require training before being available (per page 52)?

I think you've misinterpreted the layout of paged 52 and 53. First of all, Combat Styles are not listed as those skills on page 52 that require a teacher or mentor. Secondly, the table on p53 is applicable to all skills where one engages in deliberate training: hence all forms of skill - Magic, Lore, Advanced, and Combat, need to be covered.

Third: The rules for learning new common magic appears appear contradictory (page 107) - the text notes that a teacher is necessary who requires some form of payment (money or otherwise). However, the table 'Learning Common Magic' refers to spending Improvement Rolls, not monetary value. The optional rule (paying for common magic spells) lists a monetary value as an alternative to paying Improvement Rolls. So, under the standard (non-optional rules) do you need to spend money (or similar) and Improvement Rolls to learn a new common magic spell of increase the magnitude of a known spell? If so, how much money does the training cost?

You may have to spend one or both: it depends on where you learn the spell and who teaches you. A cult might teach you free of charge, but the Improvement Roll cost represents the time and effort the student has to put into learning the spell and, perhaps, doing favours for the trainer. Or the cult might charge you money and require the Improvement Rolls too. Or, you might learn a spell from your mum or dad, and they won't charge you a penny. But the old hedge wizard down the road who knows Bladesharp 8 might charge a small fortune.

Its down to you, as GM, to decide how spells will be costed. For Glorantha, more guidance will be provided in the forthcoming 'Cults of Glorantha': some cults do charge money and others don't. Some charge money depending on your rank in a cult whilst higher ranks might get the training for free. Its very, very subjective.

However, the Improvement Roll cost is there to act as a brake on those Adventurers who, having looted Grobthar's Tomb and staggered out with huge amounts of money, from maxing out spells they know and buying new ones willy-nilly - which a pure money cost has difficulty preventing, especially in magic-rich settings like Glorantha.

I appreciate that the actual 'cost' may be in terms of a service and may vary by culture. But, I see Improvement Rolls as the spending of personal time and effort to master or improve a new skill / ability.

Which is what you are doing. Common Magic has two components: the skill and the spell itself. Whilst you may not necessarily improve your Common Magic skill % when you learn a new spell, or the matrix for a higher magnitude, you will still be investing time and effort on shaping your skill, mental attitude and so on to making your new Bladesharp 8 actually work. Improvement Rolls reflect that quite neatly, we think, and is a more satisfying way of representing the learning of spells than simply turning up at the local Humakt temple, chucking down a bag of coins and saying: 'I think I'll have Bladesharp 8 please. Oh, and, while you're at it, throw in Fanaticism, too.'

I hope these queries are clear, thanks for your help.

You're very welcome! They're good questions.

 

[Antalon]

I think you've misinterpreted the layout of paged 52 and 53. First of all, Combat Styles are not listed as those skills on page 52 that require a teacher or mentor. Secondly, the table on p53 is applicable to all skills where one engages in deliberate training: hence all forms of skill - Magic, Lore, Advanced, and Combat, need to be covered.

I think my question is actually more basic: How does a character develop / open a new combat style? Can this be done by spending two Improvement Rolls as if it were a new advanced skill? Would learning a new combat style require training, like those advanced skills called out on page 53?

Thanks for your previous response btw

 

[Loz]

I think my question is actually more basic: How does a character develop / open a new combat style? Can this be done by spending two Improvement Rolls as if it were a new advanced skill? Would learning a new combat style require training, like those advanced skills called out on page 53?

The answer's No to both questions. Combat Styles are treated as Common Skills.

 

[Antalon]

Okay - so if I pick up a mace and shield I start with a basic skill (Str+Dex I think). I could then purchase training to get better and / or spend Improvement Rolls as per any Common Skill.

btw - what would the combat style for a mace be: 1-H Hammer?

Antalon.

 

[Loz]

Okay - so if I pick up a mace and shield I start with a basic skill (Str+Dex I think). I could then purchase training to get better and / or spend Improvement Rolls as per any Common Skill.

btw - what would the combat style for a mace be: 1-H Hammer?

Antalon.

Yes, that's right (your interpretation of how Combat Styles work).

Mace could fall into any of several Combat Styles as its a bludgeoning weapon. For example Mace, Mace and Shield, Hammer, Hammer and Shield or any cultural combination you can think of.

Do take a look at the latest Signs and Portents. It contains a very good article by Pete on Combat Styles which I think will answer a lot of your questions and give you more food for thought.