League Of non aligned worlds

[Da Boss]

Does that mean the fleets are based on ISD's ?

Does that mean the ISA get the best deal having access to all eras of League ships (plus EA, Minbari, Narn..........?) or are they more restricted?

 

[JTL109]

The big plan is hopefully for a League fleet restricted to 2259 and before, AoL roughly as is in the playtest pack for 2259-2261 and ISA for 2262 onwards.
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The AoL needs more ships than just those from the show.



There is certainly no bias to make any fleet worse than any other (apart from possibly the Raiders fleet).
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There should be a tournement level list for every fleet,
if there are tournements, everyone should have a fair chance to
win based upon ability, not on the choice of fleet.



As for a Dilgar War era League fleet, I think this could well happen but would be part of a Dilgar War supplement rather than the P&P article.
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That would be nice.

 

[Triggy]

JTL - as it stands the current AoL fleet list has the greatest variety of any fleet in the game (don't forget variants count as viable choices too) except for League fleets. Why would the AoL list need even more choice? (Fleets with access to allies don't have a free rein so I wouldn't classify an ISA fleet as having a huge choice in its main fleet.

I agree with you and have said as much many times about being tournament competitive.

I also agree that a Dilgar War era League fleet would be cool but P&P is not the place to do it.

 

[katadder]

shouldnt need tourney lists for fleets as most fleets are balanced.
pretty much all the league races are competitive individualy although the abbai do have a couple of stumbling blocks facing SM (vree/shadows) fleets or WSs.

 

[Triggy]

shouldnt need tourney lists for fleets as most fleets are balanced.
pretty much all the league races are competitive individualy although the abbai do have a couple of stumbling blocks facing SM (vree/shadows) fleets or WSs.

I wasn't making a claim for tourney lists again, as you say, the main lists should (and mostly are) be balanced for almost any sort of battle.

 

[Leadman]

shouldnt need tourney lists for fleets as most fleets are balanced.
pretty much all the league races are competitive individualy although the abbai do have a couple of stumbling blocks facing SM (vree/shadows) fleets or WSs.

I believe that a pure Pak Ma'Ra fleet has a number of issues that make it far from equal or balanced to the other fleets. Improve the Pak'Ma'Ra and let the league stay.

Dannie

 

[katadder]

lol the pak have long range missiles. they have double damage plasma and other AP secondaries and they get a 6+ save against all damage and crew.
whats weak about that?

 

[Greg Smith]

The pak lack a scout and a carrier/fleet carrier.

 

[Leadman]

lol the pak have long range missiles. they have double damage plasma and other AP secondaries and they get a 6+ save against all damage and crew.
whats weak about that?

LOL! Besides the -3 Initiative, They don't have a scout which makes their weapons much less effective against hull 6 and anything with interceptors. They don't have a carrier, but I guess that doesn't matter since they don't have a real fighter. Oh, and their bomber has the distinction of being the only one with a slow loading greater than 2" range weapon. The Raid and War choices are marginal. Though the War choice could be greatly improved by giving it the interceptors that the Hurr Gun ship has. Perhaps the number of Pak'Ma'Ra fleets that have won tournaments is a better indicator. Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

 

[Da Boss]

(Fleets with access to allies don't have a free rein so I wouldn't classify an ISA fleet as having a huge choice in its main fleet.

hmm not sure I agree with that - whilst the ISA can not have quantity it can def pick the best of the best from a vast number of ships - just not many of them.

It has the biggest choice in the game just can't have them all.

Unless the idea is only to allow ships in the ISD after a certain ISD?

 

[Methos5000]

(Fleets with access to allies don't have a free rein so I wouldn't classify an ISA fleet as having a huge choice in its main fleet.

hmm not sure I agree with that - whilst the ISA can not have quantity it can def pick the best of the best from a vast number of ships - just not many of them.

It has the biggest choice in the game just can't have them all.

Unless the idea is only to allow ships in the ISD after a certain ISD?

Or maybe restrict weapon use in the fleet.

Maybe have it written: "The ISA can choose from one of these fleets...etc etc, however use of emine based weaponry is forbidden as the ISA Fleet relies on a predictable open field of battle for maneuvering(meaning lots of terrain is fine it sits in the same place over the course of the battle) and the unpredictable nature of sudden emine blasts can risk damaging the ISA fleet more then the enemy."

Something to that effect, I'm really not very good at writing this kinda stuff. But the idea is that an AOE weapon is generally not something you want exploding all over when your own ships are extremely vulnerable to such a weapon.

My point being that you can restrict weapons (or ships in general) from being used and closing some loopholes to easily fixing ISA fleet weaknesses with obvious choices, while leaving several choices that might offer variety but not overpower the fleet.

The emines were just one restriction idea, others could be added as well if deemed necessary.

Just an idea.....

 

[Greg Smith]

Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

I know Triggy and Kenny Boy both have. Ken's had Vree scouts, I don't recall whether Triggy's did.

 

[katadder]

lol the pak have long range missiles. they have double damage plasma and other AP secondaries and they get a 6+ save against all damage and crew.
whats weak about that?

LOL! Besides the -3 Initiative, They don't have a scout which makes their weapons much less effective against hull 6 and anything with interceptors. They don't have a carrier, but I guess that doesn't matter since they don't have a real fighter. Oh, and their bomber has the distinction of being the only one with a slow loading greater than 2" range weapon. The Raid and War choices are marginal. Though the War choice could be greatly improved by giving it the interceptors that the Hurr Gun ship has. Perhaps the number of Pak'Ma'Ra fleets that have won tournaments is a better indicator. Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

well its only one less init than my abbai. my abbai dont use a scout as it has no stealth or offensive weapons so dies to easily. my abbai dont have a fleet carrier just a carrier for a rather pointless fighter. my abbai only have one raid choice. my abbai also have no DD weapons.
the pak war choice is awesome, I have used it to great effect and it has 6+ saves against all damage as do all pak ships so is fine in my book.
perhaps I should use a pure pak fleet next tourney i go to.

 

[Greg Smith]

Saying the pak are better than the Abbai is damning with faint praise, since most people consider the Abbai to be the weakest in the game.

 

[H]

Saying the pak are better than the Abbai is damning with faint praise, since most people consider the Abbai to be the weakest in the game.

apart seemingly from the people who play them regularly.

 

[Leadman]

Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

I know Triggy and Kenny Boy both have. Ken's had Vree scouts, I don't recall whether Triggy's did.

I run them with either Vree or Gaim scouts and they do fine. But I've had no luck with a pure Pak'Ma'Ra Fleet.

Dannie

 

[Leadman]

lol the pak have long range missiles. they have double damage plasma and other AP secondaries and they get a 6+ save against all damage and crew.
whats weak about that?

LOL! Besides the -3 Initiative, They don't have a scout which makes their weapons much less effective against hull 6 and anything with interceptors. They don't have a carrier, but I guess that doesn't matter since they don't have a real fighter. Oh, and their bomber has the distinction of being the only one with a slow loading greater than 2" range weapon. The Raid and War choices are marginal. Though the War choice could be greatly improved by giving it the interceptors that the Hurr Gun ship has. Perhaps the number of Pak'Ma'Ra fleets that have won tournaments is a better indicator. Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

well its only one less init than my abbai. my abbai dont use a scout as it has no stealth or offensive weapons so dies to easily. my abbai dont have a fleet carrier just a carrier for a rather pointless fighter. my abbai only have one raid choice. my abbai also have no DD weapons.
the pak war choice is awesome, I have used it to great effect and it has 6+ saves against all damage as do all pak ships so is fine in my book.
perhaps I should use a pure pak fleet next tourney i go to.

IMHO, the Abbai War choice is much better than the Pak'Ma'Ra War choice. However, my point is not that the Pak'Ma'Ra is a worse fleet than the Abbai. I'm only stating the Pak'Ma'Ra need nearly as much help as the Abbai. FWIW, I've never lost a game to, or won a game with a pure Pak'Ma'Ra fleet. I have lost to a pure Abbai fleet at 5 point Battle. Also, fleet size was not limited to 8 ships.

Dannie

 

[Triggy]

Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

I know Triggy and Kenny Boy both have. Ken's had Vree scouts, I don't recall whether Triggy's did.

No scouts in mine, why would I need them?

Either way, they seem to do just fine!

 

[katadder]

Saying the pak are better than the Abbai is damning with faint praise, since most people consider the Abbai to be the weakest in the game.

apart seemingly from the people who play them regularly.

yep which is me. the only abbai ship with a problem IMO is being fixed to how it should have been. and the pak are certainly not a problem. comparing them to abbai works for me as abbai run well but pak also have longer ranges in missiles.

 

[Davesaint]

LOL! Besides the -3 Initiative, They don't have a scout which makes their weapons much less effective against hull 6 and anything with interceptors. They don't have a carrier, but I guess that doesn't matter since they don't have a real fighter. Oh, and their bomber has the distinction of being the only one with a slow loading greater than 2" range weapon. The Raid and War choices are marginal. Though the War choice could be greatly improved by giving it the interceptors that the Hurr Gun ship has. Perhaps the number of Pak'Ma'Ra fleets that have won tournaments is a better indicator. Or, how about the number of tournaments that even have a Pak'Ma'Ra fleet entered as a good indicator of the quality of the fleet?

well its only one less init than my abbai. my abbai dont use a scout as it has no stealth or offensive weapons so dies to easily. my abbai dont have a fleet carrier just a carrier for a rather pointless fighter. my abbai only have one raid choice. my abbai also have no DD weapons.
the pak war choice is awesome, I have used it to great effect and it has 6+ saves against all damage as do all pak ships so is fine in my book.
perhaps I should use a pure pak fleet next tourney i go to.

IMHO, the Abbai War choice is much better than the Pak'Ma'Ra War choice. However, my point is not that the Pak'Ma'Ra is a worse fleet than the Abbai. I'm only stating the Pak'Ma'Ra need nearly as much help as the Abbai. FWIW, I've never lost a game to, or won a game with a pure Pak'Ma'Ra fleet. I have lost to a pure Abbai fleet at 5 point Battle. Also, fleet size was not limited to 8 ships.

Dannie

I have won quite a few times playing the PAK. The key to them is actually their raid and skirmish level ships. The Halik in 3 ship squadrons is a bad, bad man. Close blast doors and move in. Either fire 24 dice of AP DD plasma or 12 AD of AP DD E-mine. That takes care of the whole stealth and interceptor issues. The biggest thing to get over with the Pak is the knowledge that you are always going to lose initative. In many ways it requires a more defensive thinking. How do I keep my ships alive long enough that they will get to shoot. You need to use terrain to your advantage, and especially use CBD. The only ships I tend to take outside the Pak are scouts. I have played using the Abbai, brakiri, and the Vree scouts. The com disruptors are nice as it kind of evens the playing field for your -1 to CQ checks. Plus they eat up interceptors. Remember, the ability to use your guns in pairs also allows you to e-mine fighters. :twisted:


Give them a try. Run your ships in several small squadrons, and go to town.


Oh, one more thing, you can use the secondary guns on the sunhawk and warbird to create e-mines as well. Just boresight an empty place in space and let people walk into them.

Dave