Large Bay Weapons Clarification Needed

[Solomani666]

Large bays add +1 per damage dice
(this is done before multiplying by 10 for Destructive
weapons) to the final damage total, and gain DM+4
when attacking targets of 3,000 tons or more, due to
the massive amount of weaponry they hold.

Since the damage for large bays is the same as medium bays, then why was this not simply added on the damage chart, or am I missing something?

Ships larger than 100,000 tons ignore critical hits
from all weapons except large bays.

Given that large bays take up 5x the volume and 5x the hardpoints I really don't see any great advantage for using them.

Is there some other advantage to using large bays besides these that I missed?

 

[Jeraa]

The +4 DM when attacking ships of 3000 tons or more not only means that large bays are more accurate, they are more likely to critically hit (critical hits require an Effect of 6 or more).

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Since crits require you to do damage equal to 1% of the targets total Hull (HG, p23), large ships are immune to crits. Large bays only work to induce crits in ships in the 3000 - 10000 dT range.

So, basically large bays are not very efficient.

 

[Jeraa]

Since crits require you to do damage equal to 1% of the targets total Hull (HG, p23), large ships are immune to crits. Large bays only work to induce crits in ships in the 3000 - 10000 dT range.

So, basically large bays are not very efficient.

I didn't notice that larger ships changed the base rules for critical hit. Taking that into account, I agree large bays do seem rather bad.

 

[EldritchFire]

Since crits require you to do damage equal to 1% of the targets total Hull (HG, p23), large ships are immune to crits. Large bays only work to induce crits in ships in the 3000 - 10000 dT range.

So, basically large bays are not very efficient.

That's not entirely accurate. The severity of a crit (pg. 158) is normally (Damage done / 10) round up. For large craft, that severity is (Damage done / 100) still round up. Meaning each hit with an effect of 6+ Will still cause a severity 1 crit—as long as the hit deals a minimum of 10 damage and is with a large bay (or spinal mount, but this thread is about the large bay).

But now that I read the example given, HG rounds down instead of up. Not sure if a typo or they forgot to say, 'round down'.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

For large craft, that severity is (Damage done / 100) still round up.

Nope. I fell into that trap to.

But now that I read the example given, HG rounds down instead of i]up[/i]. Not sure if a typo or they forgot to say, 'round down'.

Rounding: Unless otherwise stated, whenever you are asked to divide in Traveller, always round down.

Core, p5.

 

[Condottiere]

Large bays can cause criticals on hundred thousand tonne ships.

If you restrict spinal mounts, which I did suspect would be due to massive recoil, that might be significant in the line of battle.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Large bays can cause criticals on hundred thousand tonne ships.

Yes, if they could do 700 damage, unfortunately they can't.


Or perhaps they can:

Large ships can also endure a great deal more damage before the effects of any critical hits become noticeable. The Severity of a critical hit is based on 1% increments of the ship’s hull value (minimum 10 points of damage).

Hmm, we could interpret that as Severity 0 crits. Combined with:

If a spacecraft has already sustained a critical hit to a location that receives another, use the Severity of the new critical hit or the original plus one, whichever is higher.

Core, p158.
We could actually manage critical hits on larger spacecraft. I don't think that is intended...

Large bays might be back into business!

 

[EldritchFire]

"The Severity of the critical hit is equal to the damage the spacecraft has taken from the attack, divided by ten (rounding up)."

CRB158, bold added for emphases.

 

[Condottiere]

Which means minimum one, but for actual capital ships, that means you need a large bay.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Overridden by:

Large ships can also endure a great deal more damage before the effects of any critical hits become noticeable. The Severity of a critical hit is based on 1% increments of the ship’s hull value (minimum 10 points of damage).

HG, p25.

No minimum Severity 1.

 

[EldritchFire]

Overridden by:

Large ships can also endure a great deal more damage before the effects of any critical hits become noticeable. The Severity of a critical hit is based on 1% increments of the ship’s hull value (minimum 10 points of damage).

HG, p25.

No minimum Severity 1.

I don't see anywhere in the quoted rules that say no minimum severity 1. It just says 'minimum 10 points of damage'. So as long as you do at least 10 points of damage, that should be a severity 1 crit, right?

And while it changes the variables in the formula (1% of hull points per severity instead of 10% of damage dealt) the result of said formula should be 'min 1', right? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to understand.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

No, not quite.

Read the example on p23:

For example, a ship with 10,000 Hull points that receives a critical hit that causes 224 points of damage, will sustain a Severity 2 critical hit.

The ship has 10000 Hull. You need at least 1% of that (or min 10) that is 10000 × 1% = 100 damage to achieve a Severity 1 crit. You need at least 200 damage to inflict a Severity 2 crit.

Another ship has 500 Hull. 1% of that (or min 10) that is 500 × 1% = 5, but since the minimum 10, you need at least 10 damage to achieve a Severity 1 crit.

With "No minimum Severity 1" I meant that if you do 5 damage, the Severity is 0, i.e. there is no minimum Severity.

It is perhaps not crystal clear, but at least I think I can understand myself...

 

[EldritchFire]

I get that part, but I don't see anything in the HG rules that overrides the CRB rule of 'round up for crit severity'. To me, that means that regardless of the hull points, an attack roll with an effect of 6+ will cause a severity 1 crit because the CRB says to round up the severity calculations.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The default is to round down. Unless "round up" is specified, round down. Core, p5:

Rounding: Unless otherwise stated, whenever you are asked to divide in Traveller, always round down.

I asked this specific question in beta (the 1% was 5% then):

I think this was based on your understanding that the the crit severity was basically damage rounded up to the nearest 5%. That is incorrect, as per the rules it is indicated that it is per full 5%.

Therefore, firing any amount of large bays as single attacks will not have any chance to critical. The minimum damage required 4033 to cause even a Sev 1 critical.

http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=900702#p900702