Kurgan Fleet Strategies?

[Mertisem]

Hey guys! Brand new to forum. Recently picked up a Kurgan fleet and played my first match against my friend ( a Decados player, who has won several tournaments ). Obviously I have many avenues of strategy to test, but at this point in time, I am a little disheartened. He smashed me into space dust!

Our fleets. 1000 pnts.

Me(kurgan): 2 Destroyers, 3 frigates, 1 cruiser.
Him(decados): Cruiser, Dreadnaught.

I was unable to take down either ship before he reduced me to 3 frigates. The problem?
GATLING LASERS.

Baring the fact that nearly all my weapons are inaccurate ( even heat-blasters, when ship is shielded, are inaccurate ), hitting him was hard enough. Add in the Gatling lasers that destroy rockets, missiles, and torpedoes, I was lucky to do 2 points of damage to him per round. I did my best to maneuver to him front and back arcs, but even still, I was at a serious disadvantage. He obliterated 1 destroyer in one meson blast from his dreadnaught. I even tried to grapple his cruiser, hoping that my troops could help me, however Gatling lasers can apparently shoot grapple hooks too!

I just couldn't do a darn thing against him the whole night. Summary : I had to roll a 6 to hit almost the entire time, and if I did hit, he shot it out of space. I have also learned that soon to be implemented there will be a escort ship that has Gatling lasers as well. Wow...maybe I shouldn't have picked Kurgan.

Could anyone give me any strategies or ideas that might make my fleet more...viable? At the moment, granted I am a new(ish) player, I don't see how I can compete.

Please help! And thanks for your time reading!

-Mert

 

[Nerroth]

Maybe it's something that balances out in the overall run of play, but the thought of such an imbalance of forces really makes me wish there were some sort of deployment restrictions for each fleet; or at least some sort of "historical guideline" to help give a sense of what kind fo balance each faction is supposed to be able to deploy.

 

[katadder]

best to swarm him and board I find with kurgans.
or get in front/behind of him where he doesnt have gatling lasers is the best thing if going to shoot him. dont worry about the meson cannon, its 1AD so even against a frigate only has a 50/50 chance to hit.
tbh that fleet is not the worst you could have faced at 1000pts and the decados dread and cruiser are not great, but also not a good fleet to introduce somebody to the game.

 

[locarno24]

He obliterated 1 destroyer in one meson blast from his dreadnaught.

There's not a lot you can do about that. Big meson shots are short ranged and rarely hit but when they do it's essentially 'good night Vienna'.

I even tried to grapple his cruiser, hoping that my troops could help me, however Gatling lasers can apparently shoot grapple hooks too!

Yup. Annoying, aren't they?

I had to roll a 6 to hit almost the entire time

?Que?
I thought Innaccurate was re-roll hits. It is not - regardless of how logical it sounds - the reverse of Accurate. In theory (thanks to criticals) a weapon could be Accurate and Inaccurate at the same time!

Could anyone give me any strategies or ideas that might make my fleet more...viable? At the moment, granted I am a new(ish) player, I don't see how I can compete.

Several options:
You did the right thing, trying to manouvre out of gatling arcs. The fact that they only protect broadsides is a big deal.

One of the first things I'll recommend is the Psychics & Theurgists rules. They're in Signs & Portents (don't ask me the number). The Occult School of El-Din gives you lots of options, but one of the best is a psychic with the Truth power. This gives you something you really, really want in a gunnery-focused Kurgan fleet; access to the Scout trait.

Just worth double-checking - describe how you think gatling lasers work against a big rocket broadside...

Boarding is a very effective option, but that's specific to a fleet with a shed-load of Sheerkhur-class galliots, taking advantage of the free Grimson marines. The trick there is to move 'across' several arcs - so if your forward grapples are cut by laserfire, you get to try again with your broadside ones as you pass.

One other option to consider (at least if you expect to see continued 'big ship' fleets) is the carrier force - you have access to some nice light carriers, and a wave of Khangard suicide fighters will put the wind up dreadnoughts in no time - shield-piercing Devastating (+1) hits are very good at screwing over a single ship, messing up its weapons and defences quickly, even if it's still got plenty of hit points left. They're also fast (faster than normal bombers) and more than manouvrable enough to avoid the gatling arc entirely.

 

[Greg Smith]

I had to roll a 6 to hit almost the entire time

?Que?
I thought Innaccurate was re-roll hits. It is not - regardless of how logical it sounds - the reverse of Accurate. In theory (thanks to criticals) a weapon could be Accurate and Inaccurate at the same time!

Nope. Inacurate is -1. Inacurate cancels out accurate.

 

[locarno24]

Damn. Where did I get the reroll hits from then? I'll have to go have a look - sure it's for something...

 

[Greg Smith]

Damn. Where did I get the reroll hits from then? I'll have to go have a look - sure it's for something...

Drazi attack run :?:

 

[Da Boss]

Is it a higher level critical efffect or perhaps an earlier playtest version?

 

[Mertisem]

Thank you guys for the awesome replies! Two things...

The trick there is to move 'across' several arcs - so if your forward grapples are cut by laserfire, you get to try again with your broadside ones as you pass.

How is this accomplished?

Also, what does the scout trait do for me exactly? I thought it only allowed you to reroll initiative...

Thanks!

-Mert

 

[Da Boss]

Scouts get you to re-roll Iniaitive every turn IIRC, reduce stealth or give you re-rolls to hit on all weapons targeting a given ship if you pass the CQ check :twisted:

 

[Halaxi]

Scout:
This ship has been designed specifically for gathering
intelligence on enemy fleets and relaying it back to friendly ships.
The presence of just one scout ship can therefore make an entire
fleet fight far more effectively. A ship with the Scout trait can
perform a number of duties during a battle.
If you have more ships with the Scout trait than the enemy fleet,
you may re-roll initiative for both setting up and during every
Initiative Phase, so long as the scenario allows these rolls in the
first place.

If the Scout ship is within 36 inches and in line of sight of a ship
with the Stealth trait, it may target the enemy ship and make a
Crew Quality check at the start of the Attack Phase. If it rolls an 8
or more, the ship will have its Stealth score reduced by one for the
remainder of the turn.

Alternatively, the Scout ship may try to redirect attacks aimed
against an enemy ship within 36 inches and within line of sight.
Make a Crew Quality check. If the result is 8 or more, you may
choose any one weapon system on any ships attacking the enemy
target. You may re-roll all Attack Dice for those weapon systems
that fail to hit the target.

Thats what the Scout trait allows you to do. Of note is the text I have bolded - you get to re-roll missed from ONE weapon system, not all. However, if you have two or more scouts...

Hal.

 

[miggel]

Damn. Where did I get the reroll hits from then? I'll have to go have a look - sure it's for something...

Guided is re-roll misses (Missiles + Torpedoes). Maybe the source of the confusion.

 

[EnsignJDonavan]

I've been looking at the Kurgan since I got the text that Mertism got beaten by our friend. I really think their strength is in their Khangard. It fits with not only the story line but also the Expanded ed. rules (kudos to Mongoose for that). But you have to take a few psychers with the fleet so counter any Rotate or Repel they might use. Just a simple block power will do. Then even if they have gatling lasers, which only have a range of 2", you just fly up their aft Muahhahahaha, put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Decados player. Anyway that's my thoughts.

 

[locarno24]

How is this accomplished?

Grapnels are used in the movement phase - if you hit movement ends, but if you miss you keep moving, and can fire another arc's grapnels as they bear.

Mental picture - I start more-or less facing a ship, it's in the fore arc but I'm not square on.

\
-

As I close, I fire forward grapnels. Either I miss or they're cut, so I keep moving.

- \

The ship is now in arc of my starboard grapnels, so I get to try again with them.

 

[Mertisem]

How is this accomplished?

Grapnels are used in the movement phase - if you hit movement ends, but if you miss you keep moving, and can fire another arc's grapnels as they bear.

Mental picture - I start more-or less facing a ship, it's in the fore arc but I'm not square on.

\
-

As I close, I fire forward grapnels. Either I miss or they're cut, so I keep moving.

- \

The ship is now in arc of my starboard grapnels, so I get to try again with them.

This sounds awesome but I was under the impression that you could only use one special action per round?

 

[katadder]

it is one special action, however under that special action you can fire as many grapnels against the target as you manage to get into arc during your movement under that one SA

 

[krs_sven]

I haven't played as Kurgans (yet), but against the Decados, you need to be wary of their higher firepower. The Grigori cruiser and Anikrunta dreadnought both have meson turrets, so stay out of close range (15") and try and outflank them. Use your big carrier and suicide fighters and stay away from the front arc of the Anikrunta (it may only have 1AD, but I wouldn't gamble a ship on a D6 roll, the multihit 3D6 will hurt if it hits).

Decados like fights where the enemy gets up close (a lot of their weapons are short ranged), so boarding is risky. I've found my Decados fleet needs to get in there and start firing as soon as possible, otherwise you can be outflanked and kept at range. Taking two big ships has firepower advantages, but also hangs a big sign saying 'outflank me now'. Also even when on a winning initiative, two ships vs 4-5 puts the less numerous fleet on the back foot.

However, make sure you're using gatling lasers correctly. If the three all fire against one torpedo attack, that's it - they can only fire again in that turn vs grapples/boarders and again vs fighters. Kurgans also suffer hugely from having no weapons that can burn out shields! So all of their heat blasters are inaccurate (vs shields), to go alongside the inaccurate rocket launchers. To take down any shields, the Kurgans have to rely on criticals. The heat blasters do ignore shields like al-Malik weapons.

Inaccurate means -1 to hit, so against Hull 5 ships you're looking for 6s. Contrast with the Li Halan, who have mostly lasers, which are Accurate - against Hull 5 ships you only need 4s. This doesn't sound like much, but Mongoose need to understand that it is a game-changer (or breaker) for ships to have only a 17% chance to hit with each AD vs ships which have a 50%.

Unfortunately, someone decided inaccurate weapons were fair as long as they have more attack dice. Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that in practice, merely having more dice does not even it out. The Kurgans are supposed to be fighting the Hazat, and have been fighting them for centuries - their fleet however is going to get creamed by the Hazat with all of their multihit, burnout blasters. As opposed fleets, Hawkwoods and Vuldrok seem more logical.

 

[Shloaksta]

So far in the Campaign I have been playing, I use the Kurgan, against Decados, and Li Halan. Against the Decados I tend to fair alright so long as I use my suicide fighters, and get really really lucky dice rolls. Against the Li Halan though its absured to even try now.

With Accurate and precise weapons at long range the Li Halan have been just blowing through all my ships and FAST. They either stay out of my range with his ships and pound the hell out of my ships, or they all gang up on one ship at a time and just cripple it in one turn if not down right obliterating it. As for my suicide fighters they get annihilated before they reach their targets, and if i wait till the carrier gets in close then release them the carrier with all the fighters gets wiped out. I cant even RAM.

In short against the Li Halan...forget it. Just pack up and leave, turn tail and run, or face the facts and prepare to lose all your ships. I dont know who thought giving them long range accurate, and precise weapons was " balanced"....but its not when they fight the Kurgan. With another fleet its still a toss up in favor of the Li halan.

 

[tneva82]

Unfortunately, someone decided inaccurate weapons were fair as long as they have more attack dice. Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that in practice, merely having more dice does not even it out.

Well. Yes and no. Give me choise between 3AD heat blasters or 1AD burn out +1 to hit guns and I'll take the heat blasters vs hull 5 shielded ships any day, any week, any year.

Bigger issue is actually that they DON'T have notably more AD than others...(cruiser has...what 4? destroyer 4. Decados destroyer is tossing 6 AD + pulse guns.)

But then again I disagree that inaccurate is automatic death knell to weapon or that accurate is all-powerful.

edit: kurgan destroyer vs li halan(?) destroyer. Damage output per turn about 1.7 damage point + effect of about 1 criticals in favour of li-halan though shields will remove some of the firepower advantage because li-halan needs to get through shields first.

(first salvo: shields stripped, 0.5 or so past while li-halan has taken 2.77. 2nd salvo 5 damage to kurgan, 5.55 or so to li-halan. 3rd: 9.5 vs 8.33

So takes about 3 salvo's to exceed damage output(barring criticals) vs hull 5 4 shield ship.

Albeit criticals are going to influence. In those 5 salvo's li-halan has caused 3 criticals vs 1.6666666 criticals.

Can't comment how huge advantage that 1.4 extra critical is because due to fleets I have had on table's by the time criticals starts to be meaningful ships tends to be crippled by damage or destroyed anyway.

Bigger advantage is actually simply outranging though extra damage helps a bit.

Kurgan's one advantage is the 2/45 turn. If they can get close the li-halan will strugle to keep them in firing sight.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Unfortunately, someone decided inaccurate weapons were fair as long as they have more attack dice. Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that in practice, merely having more dice does not even it out.

Well, speaking of statistical averages, it does

However, Kurgan Fans, worry not. They have been enjoying some little tweaks over the past few months - nothing to knock them out of character but let's just say they have a new weapon/tactic in their arsenal that will make even Hazat think twice!