Klingon Disruptors are overpowered and unbalanced!

[MongooseMatt]

Does this apply to Romulan Fleet Boxes in the US? I can't seem to get a response on those. :?

Yes. Sort of.

The ships are indeed there, and on the shelves. However, we (ahem, temporarily) ran out of flying bases. They are arriving tomorrow at the warehouse, and the guys there will be beavering away, filling boxes with bases - they will be shipping out straight after, with remaining mail orders there a priority.

This has not affected us in the UK, other than three Romulan fleet sets currently on order, which will be fulfilled this week.

 

[McKinstry]

I would love playing a Klingon who wants to go fresh D7 nose to fresh CA nose with me under 6". Absent freaky die rolling, 4 out of 5 times he has made a very bad mistake.

The Klingons have that whole agile plus great front shield thing going but staying outside 9" isn't terribly easy and overall their fleet is not an offensive powerhouse when compared to the Feds. Playing the full rules with terrain occupying 1 in 6 square feet and on a board properly sized to the point totals, I like the Feds although they are admittedly harder to play than the Klingons. If I were going to fuss( which I am not), I ask for hits on their rear shield to count as x2 or question whether a Turn 4 BC needs to be agile but disruptors too good, not that I can see.

I also kind of like the OCL in a low drone environment. Great Phaser 1 suite for the points.

 

[McKinstry]

Does this apply to Romulan Fleet Boxes in the US? I can't seem to get a response on those. :?

Yes. Sort of.

The ships are indeed there, and on the shelves. However, we (ahem, temporarily) ran out of flying bases. They are arriving tomorrow at the warehouse, and the guys there will be beavering away, filling boxes with bases - they will be shipping out straight after, with remaining mail orders there a priority.

This has not affected us in the UK, other than three Romulan fleet sets currently on order, which will be fulfilled this week.

Thanks Matt. Stuff happens, I just appreciate knowing what the deal was.

 

[tneva82]

My CF was torn apart by disruptors as my opponent rolled 3 6's in a row, overloaded of course

What will happen to C8 when 3 overloaded photon's ro9ll 3 6's in a row?

Nice arqument. "Opponent got lucky, disruptors are broken!"

I also wonder how many games some of you have played. I have been playing miniature games for a long, long time.

15 years, practically every GW game since FB5th/40k 3rd(with bit of 2nd ed), including every specialist game. Warmachine, hordes, fow, sst, every ACTA version, warmaster ancient, legends of the old west and couple others I'm forgetting at the moment.

That card ain't much of an arqument either.

And its fairly easy to see when something isn't balanced. I can see losing 2 out of 3 games, or just the reverse. But getting stomped 8 out of 8 games...

Lol. You can see from papers very little. You find out imbalances by playing. In wargames there's soooooo many variables that what might look one way turns out to be another alltogether.

.its not really that fun. it all comes down to the shields, range, and overloading the disruptors.

Let's see. Apart from overload and range being mutually self-excluding(if he's in overload range he's a) not zipping around fast and agile b) is at in your face range so everything and kitchen sink at your range is in range). Shields are nice yes but only if opponent let's you to keep him there. And of course for feds photon's as good as ignore them because with photon's you aren't that interested about the shield hits anyway, your main punch comes from the shield penetrating hits anyway. Phaser 1's main punch comes also btw from shield penetrators. Anything with help in regard of criticals is more interested in shield penetrating hits to get those crit hits ASAP.

 

[storeylf]

I also wonder how many games some of you have played. I have been playing miniature games for a long, long time.

As I remember I started playing wargames in 1978/9. Like many youths of the day Airfix soldiers and models were a staple toy and I had a lot of them. One day my parents took me to some local modelling fair where some people had a large table set up playing with some actual rules and a great display with painted figures etc. I was hooked. So that would be ~34/35 years ago. That may not be as long as you, but as others have said, people posting here are not gaming newbs.

I also think this balance issue has more to do with the fact Mongoose can't produce minis if I could make the 1000-1500 pt list I wanted instead of playing with one fed one klink squadron box I think things would be way different.

That's nothing to do with balance. Get some counters out or use some other stand ins, that is what we are doing for larger games.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Phaser 3's are Overpowered

Finally, someone sees the overpowered strength of this little beast - all plasma users tremble in it's face :lol:

Disruptors are as effective as they are in the other core games (same damage over 2 turns as a Photon, better range (without Derfac and the Photon Proximity charge - but the photon is less accurate than in the core game).

And a little background, as i've been playing various games for around 30 years, so whilst not had much (any ?) playtest experience - i do have some knowledge of gaming.

And if you think the Klingon's are bad, what must you feel the Kzinti are like - Disruptors and Drones :!:

 

[scoutdad]

Had to insert a short note here.
We've been playing ACTASF since before it was released and while there were a few misteps (and some things that we missed during testing), I don't think the Klingons are broken.

We've got an ACTASF tournament coming up at NashCon this weekend. I'm hoping for around 12 players, but I have 6 local players confirmed and of those six, only one is flying a Klingon fleet. the others are 1 Gorn, 2 Fed, 1 Tholian, and 1 Kzinti.

If the Klingons were truely broken, then we've have more Klingon players than we do.

As has been previously stated, a lot of it comes to ship selection and tactics.
I've siad many times on both this forum and the ADB forum, "The Klingons have the shallowest learning curve, but once you have the basics down, the other empires can win just as easily."

 

[MobileMarksmen]

Dear ACTA players, get real! The reference to the game was to actually playing the game. It was not meant as slander, or in any way derogatory. I just know that there are a lot "Arm Chair", generals out there. I have looked at the game, played and I have an opinion. When I see more even playing, then I will change my opinion. I still think that the weapons give a decidedly bigger advantage to the Klingon player. As I am hitting sometimes at 25%-50% on photons, And have to reload them. If I don't cripple the ship right off, I end up facing the same 8-10 Phaser-1 , and assorted Phaser-2 right back at me (D7) . Plus Disruptors which at close range can be repeatedly overloaded. Flanking works, yes, a good player keeps the Klingon ship in the front arc of the CF, as to negate its ability to evade Drones, and seeking weapons.

I play the Federation because I like the ships, I always have. I was really excited about the game and still get others to try it. I still think it needs tweaking.

 

[H]

Dear ACTA players, get real! The reference to the game was to actually playing the game. It was not meant as slander, or in any way derogatory. I just know that there are a lot "Arm Chair", generals out there. I have looked at the game, played and I have an opinion. When I see more even playing, then I will change my opinion. I still think that the weapons give a decidedly bigger advantage to the Klingon player. As I am hitting sometimes at 25%-50% on photons, And have to reload them. If I don't cripple the ship right off, I end up facing the same 8-10 Phaser-1 , and assorted Phaser-2 right back at me (D7) . Plus Disruptors which at close range can be repeatedly overloaded. Flanking works, yes, a good player keeps the Klingon ship in the front arc of the CF, as to negate its ability to evade Drones, and seeking weapons.

I play the Federation because I like the ships, I always have. I was really excited about the game and still get others to try it. I still think it needs tweaking.

is it slag of acta players day again?

 

[tneva82]

Dear ACTA players, get real!

You are doing EXCELENT job at destroying any sort of creditability you have :lol:

As I am hitting sometimes at 25%-50% on photons, And have to reload them.

Thing you keep forgetting though that it wouldn't make much of difference with photon's whether you hit on 4+ or 5+ at long range. Since it's the 6's that really count. Now yeah if you hit on 2+ with them at long range non-shield hits would be important but as it is 5+ or 4+, doesn't matter in the grand scale. 4 would be hit on shields which isn't what you are all that interested with photon's. With photon's and phaser 1's you are looking at knocking target out of fight BEFORE they lose their shields. Especially when facing klingons. Those 2x shields don't count for much when your main guns(photon's and phaser-1') are aiming to bypass those 2x shields and cause some crits to target.

Ah well. Since you seem to be unwilling to learn just switch to klingons then.

BTW this thread gave pretty good evidence that mongoose got it right with klingon's since now there's guys saying both "disruptors are too weak" and "disruptors are too good". When you have 2 complains exact opposite odds are good truth is in the middle. And that would be "disruptors are just right"

 

[billclo]

One question my opponent asked was this: why do disruptors lose accuracy at over half range, but don't drop to half damage? It would be more realistic and reduce the effectiveness of long range massed disruptor fire.

That got me to thinking. How about this: make disruptors do 1 damage, but make them killzone 12? That way at 12" or less they'd do 2 damage each, and over 12" they'd do 1 each. This makes long range massed disruptor fire less effective.

I'm of the opinion that disruptors are okay at this point, but the above question/proposal is kinda interesting I think.

 

[MarkDawg]

I also think this balance issue has more to do with the fact Mongoose can't produce minis if I could make the 1000-1500 pt list I wanted instead of playing with one fed one klink squadron box I think things would be way different.

You want more ships? Order them! They are sitting on our shelves right _now_, just waiting for action!

So I can order the Fed reinforcement box today and have it mailed out to me in a normal wait time like a week?

 

[MongooseMatt]

If I don't cripple the ship right off, I end up facing the same 8-10 Phaser-1 , and assorted Phaser-2 right back at me (D7) .

Umm, the D7 has three phasers-1 and, if he gets you right on the arc line, a maximum of 4 phasers-2 (which, with any luck, will be at long range and out of their kill zone). A Fed heavy cruiser can do six phasers-1 alone without much thought, as as for a Kirov...

There is something we are not getting about your games - I really think something is going wrong...

Plus Disruptors which at close range can be repeatedly overloaded. Flanking works,

But if he is overloading disruptors, he is not boosting shields or taking any other Special Action, plus he is limiting himself to 6" movement, whether he finally gets a target or not.

If he is overly keen on overloads, you can use that to trap him. Float a ship forward, as if it will move into a position where he can overload, then pull back sharply. Your other ships, now able to take a very good guess at where he will go (only a 6" movement now) can then pound him, potentially with their own overloads.

CTA really is all about predicting the other guy's movement 1-2 turns ahead. It sounds like (withiout seeing a battle report) this is what your opponent is doing.

yes, a good player keeps the Klingon ship in the front arc of the CF, as to negate its ability to evade Drones, and seeking weapons.

You see, I wouldn't even bother with that - it really does sound like you are fighting defensively, which I don't think is the way to go with Feds.

Can you do us a battle report of your next game (or your last one, if you remember it well)? We can chip in with some solid ideas then.

 

[McKinstry]

One question my opponent asked was this: why do disruptors lose accuracy at over half range, but don't drop to half damage? It would be more realistic and reduce the effectiveness of long range massed disruptor fire.

That got me to thinking. How about this: make disruptors do 1 damage, but make them killzone 12? That way at 12" or less they'd do 2 damage each, and over 12" they'd do 1 each. This makes long range massed disruptor fire less effective.

I'm of the opinion that disruptors are okay at this point, but the above question/proposal is kinda interesting I think.

Interesting point and except for when I play Klingons, an intrguing one, but it isn't a Klingon only issue. While the other strengths such as agile and double front shield might make it still reasonable for a Klingon fleet with disruptors only doing one point over 12", the already puny (other than drones) Kzintis have a seriously weak phaser suite and if their disruptors get nerfed, we might have additional balance issues.

 

[MongooseMatt]

So I can order the Fed reinforcement box today and have it mailed out to me in a normal wait time like a week?

If you are in the UK, it will be a darn sight quicker than that - Royal Mail willing, I'll get it to you on Wednesday morning.

If you are in the US, the only barrier are large numbers of Romulans flying out of the warehouse over the next couple of days, so yes, 7-10 days (max) is a good estimate from what I understand of USPS speeds.

 

[Stumonster]

I placed an order for a Federation and a Klingon fleet box on 30 April, but have not seen a shipment confirmation yet. . . . Could it just be that the system did not mail me one?

Anyway . . .order status is off topic. To get back on topic, Just my 2 cents but I posted just after I bought the rules last year that Killzone 12 made more sense for disruptors. It fit the fluff better, and I think that different upgrades for the disruptors found in the SFB universe could easily just modify that killzone range as needed. I have not played enough games (especially with the drone rules changes) to see how such a change would shake out. Being a fan of the Klingons, I would not want them to be nerfed too badly.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I placed an order for a Federation and a Klingon fleet box on 30 April, but have not seen a shipment confirmation yet. . . . Could it just be that the system did not mail me one?

Drop me a line at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com, and I will sort that out for you!

 

[Greg Smith]

I also wonder how many games some of you have played.

I've been playing games for at least 30 years.

Our group found Federation and Klingons to be pretty balanced in playtesting.

 

[MobileMarksmen]

I have been playing games for a long time, and I will stick to my guns. Those of you who posted constructive criticism, "Thanks", I will take it under advisement..for those of you who didn't, who cares. Its a game....I will be playing tomorrow night and will post a battle report. We should be bringing in a few new players. Also please read all the post before posting...as I stated it was my opinion and not meant to hurt some gamer's feelings.

I will try out some of the smaller ships...but I have been also noticing that enough 6's get rolled that a ship needs to be able to take some hits. I like the OCL for flanking the Klingon's (turn 4) and to try to get my BCH's into good firing position.

 

[Halfbat]

@mobilemarksman - it will look good to see one.

@OCL-philes / msprange - I should have made it clear I was mainly talking about games vs. Klingons. I didn't mean to insult the ageing OCL. As Matt said All Power to Shields is the best SA to use at long range vs Klingons and the FFB has 20/+2d6 whereas the OCL only has +1d6. As always, the ships you choose should match your own preferred tactics (that's standard wargames advice!).

@msprange - I will bow to your superior experience in this area. Thanks for highlighting all the potential issues and bonuses, though.

@The "Oldies". Pleased to see so many of you around.