K'Kree head issues

[Scarecrow]

So then, I've been feeling all Travellery since visiting TravCon and my attention has flitted butterfly-like back to some Traveller CGI. The world and his cousin appears to be making spaceships these days so I thought I'd have a crack at one of the alien races instead - if only because my skillset of late has reached a stage where I might be able to pull it off to a more satisfying degree

So then, the first brick wall I hit is the usual one: No two versions of Traveller agree on the K'Kree's appearence. In fact, no two illustrations seem to show them in quite the same way.

In the original Classic book, they appear to be part bovine, part grey alien with eyes at the front and a snout that tapers conically to a small mouth.
Then in the otherwise excellent GURPS book they are definately more bovine/equine with eyes at the side and a broad, flat snout. For what it's worth I absolutely adore GMG's more bovine take on the head but I get the feeling that that's not really how they were meant to be.

So I'm trying to do a sort of mid-way interpretation. So far I have a block mesh that gives the basic volumes but I'm not happy with it so I'm after a fresh pair of eyes to tell me what's wrong with it.

So far, I believe that the eyes are too large and that the snout isn't quite the right shape.

the head thus far:


Some selected ref images:


Crow

 

[simonh]

Looks ok to me, but I'm no artist. Cow eyes are quite a bit larger than ours, so that's not necesserily a problem as K'Kree eyes might be large for the same reasons (whatever they are).

Simon Hibbs

 

[SSWarlock]

Same here. There's plenty of differentiation in the human facial structure and your initial effort seems to me to be well within the norm established by the referential images. The forward-looking orientation eyes in your mesh is supported by at least four of the referential images while the sinus ridges are also shown in 3 of the ref images.

I'd say your mesh is good to go.

 

[Scarecrow]

Ding! Hupdate!



I've retopologised the head to tidy the mesh up and make it animation-ready (though wether it ever gets animated is another matter) and added some detail. I've rotated the eyes out about 30 degrees. They look a lot less goofy and still look forward facing.
I'm really quite pleased with the profile and the quarter view. It feels like a fairly workable compromise between all of the various reference images. I'm not sold on the front view yet though and I just remembered that I haven't brought the jaw in as Aramis suggested - maybe that's what it is.

Obvious things that still need work: The kink in the jaw that's really obvious in the front view is the big one, also some smoothing issues along with defining the cheeks more clearly - but it's very late and I want to watch Clone Wars.

Thanks for the input everyone. Keep it coming.

Crow

 

[SSWarlock]

Very nice re-topo'ing of the overall face; especially around the eyes. Your update makes the K'kree look more intelligent and less, well..bovine. (Cows..In..Spaaaace!)

Of course, that's just my humanocentric bias showing up; the eyes in your update look more human-like.

Hmmm. I wonder what would it look like with the eyes from your update scaled up a little larger in relation to the overall head size but not as large as in your first attempt? The dark part of each eye in the first attempt seemed too large but the eyes in the update almost seem a bit too human-sized, if that makes sense. Just IMO, of course. YMMV.

 

[Scarecrow]

Okay, I've rotated the eyeball forward and I think it's about done, at least for a first pass:



And here's the mesh in Z-Brush with some of the edge discrepancies smoothed away. No fur or skin detail yet, though.



Now for the body. This looks like it's going to be as fun as the head!



Crow

 

[Scarecrow]

I just started blocking out the body volumes and had to share.
It looks like Dobbin the pantomime horse.



Crow

 

[rust]

It looks good, but I think you have a problem with the eyes. The eyes of
grazers, and I think a K'kree is a typical grazer, are designed to cover a
wide arc to the sides of the body, not to cover a small arc in front of the
body. Your K'kree has "predator eyes", not "grazer eyes".

 

[Scarecrow]

Yeah, I've been through this one on COTI.
The K'kree were grazers and did have side-mounted eyes. According to the GURPS alien book, however, once they became sentient and developed tools, they were no longer in any danger from their natural predators (especially as they quickly wiped them out). They then evolved front-mounted eyes for stereoscopic vision.

That said, all the illustrations of the K'Kree show them with side-mounted eyes (except for the anatomical illustration in CT book 2 which looks like a distorted human head (see my first post)). So I relented and went with the illustrations. If you check the second image in the two posts up, you'll see the pretty much final head. Side mounted eyes, with eyeballs rotated forward for stereo vision.

Cheers,

Crow

 

[rust]

Ah, I see - thank you for the explanation.

 

[waylandson]

Scarecrow,

I am really enjoying your work, especially as I am developing a campaign world in which the K'Kree are the pricipal enemies of humanity. In fact they have been one of favourite human races every since I bought Alien Module 2 back in the early 1980's.
The only problem I have with the race, is the hands, according to the module is that their hands has a less powerful grip than humans which means according to the book they have great trouble in using weapons like daggers and swords so they instead they use polearms.
Given their shape do you think they could actually use a polearm effectively? I can see them using a weapon like a bill or a halberd, especially if they grip it like an axe, rather than a quarterstaff.
What sort of longarms would you think they would use?
Personally, whenever I think of them I have this vision of them along the lines of renaissance era Reiter or Harqubasiers, armoured cavalry armed with heavy pistols or light carbines or bluderbusses.

 

[Scarecrow]

Funnily enough I did some K'kree miniatures a few years back and they were holding bill-like polearms:

http://www.crowstuff.co.uk/rpg/traveller_minis/kkree_armoured.jpg

I'm not keen on the telescoping fingers thing. I may address it in my model, but none of the illustrators have ever shown telescoping fingers (even the original anatomical drawings don't show this) so I might just hand-wave it.

Talking of campaigns, I'm surprised that there's never been an adventure or campaign featuring the 'Centaurs'. Along with the Hivers and Bwaps, they're one of my favourite Traveller Aliens.

Crow

 

[Scarecrow]

Here's the latest:

I've bulked out the lower body a bit, but yes, he's definately still too top heavy.



I've done an overlay comparison on both of the full body illustrations from CT Alien Book 2 and it's surprisingly close (especially as both images have discrepancies (main one being shoulder positions)



I think the left-hand image is the most useful. Certainly, looking at it, the shoulders in my model appear too high and too wide, that will reduce some of the bulk in the upper torso.
The upper rib cage also seems too high and he has no belly at all, that will definately help bulk up the lower half.
I wonder if the forelegs need to be slightly further forward too.

Crow

 

[andrew boulton]

Most of MTJ#4 was devoted to the Lords Of Thunder campaign, which included K'kree stuff.

 

[SSWarlock]

Most of MTJ#4 was devoted to the Lords Of Thunder campaign, which included K'kree stuff.

Said material made me simultaneously fervently grateful as a player that they were far, far away from the Spinward Marches and, as a GM, bitterly curse that same distance.

 

[SSWarlock]

Here's the latest:

I've bulked out the lower body a bit, but yes, he's definately still too top heavy.

Agreed.

I think the left-hand image is the most useful. Certainly, looking at it, the shoulders in my model appear too high and too wide, that will reduce some of the bulk in the upper torso.
The upper rib cage also seems too high and he has no belly at all, that will definately help bulk up the lower half.
I wonder if the forelegs need to be slightly further forward too.

Crow

The left-hand image does seem to work better with the forelegs moved a bit more forward, which will add to both support of the upper body and overall stability. As a side mutter, looking at the skeletal overlay makes me wonder if K'kree have two pairs of lungs and two hearts.

 

[Scarecrow]

Here's todays scribblings:



Lowered the upper ribcage and moved it forward a bit.
Moved the Forelegs forward a bit.
Bulked out the hind legs and the belly.
Reshaped the body a little.

Now it looks like this:



I'll try bulking up the forelegs later. I think that regardless of the logic behind it, they shouldn't really be as bulky as the hind legs. All of the full-body K'kree ilustrations I can find either show or suggest bulkier hind legs and as broken as that might be, if I have the forelegs as big as, or bigger than the hind legs, then it strays too far from cononicity and ceases to be K'kree, in my mind, anyway.

Crow

 

[far-trader]

I was gonna say if anything the forelegs should be bulkier than the hindlegs as they carry more weight (the whole torso). Though the hind quarters may need to be a bit bulkier too just to keep the K'kree from planting their nose in the dirt every time they bend over at the waist. So bulk up the back end and the forelegs (equal to the hind at least). Just my lay opinion though

Oh, and canon be cast, just make it "right"