ISC Rear-Firing Torpedoes suggestion

[Nerroth]

In an earlier thread, there was a discussion as to how to model one of the key weapons used by the Inter-Stellar Concordium, the Plasmatic Pulsar Device, in ACtA:SF terms. However, while that weapon would doubtless take up the most time once the ISC gets its turn in the development schedule, there is one other quirk of theirs that would need looking at; the rear-firing plasma torpedo suite.

In order to try and deal with the seeking weapons and attrition units expected to be encountered during the course of the Pacification (a major self-declared peace-keeping effort which the Concordium set about pursuing after the General War wound down), the ISC fit matching rows of aft-firing plasma-F torpedoes to most of their ships. These torpedoes were tied to a unique fire control system that concentrated on their use against things like drones or gunboats, but was not optimised for use against enemy vessels. (The ships in the pic above are flying away from the camera. If you look closely enough, you can see matching pairs of green squares on either side of the aft hull section; those are the rows of aft-firing Plasma-Fs.)

So, in order to tackle this concept, I was thinking of the following Trait, based on Federation Commander's (4J6):

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ISC Aft Torpedo Suite: Designed in order to counter waves of enemy seeking weapons and attrition units, most Inter-Stellar Concordium starships mounted a suite of aft-firing Plasma-F Torpedoes tied to a fire control system optimised for use against smaller targets. All of the Plasma-F Torpedoes on an ISC ship which are marked with an * are tied into this weapons suite. No more than one torpedo from this suite may be launched at an enemy starship in a single turn. (The Battleship is an exception, as it may launch two such torpedoes at an enemy ship per turn). However, any or all of these torpedoes may be launched at enemy Shuttles in a single turn. Alternatively, they may each be used to counter a single Attack Die of Drones during Defensive Fire, but only if the Drone-launching ship lies within a given torpedo's firing arc.

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In order to demonstrate the concept, this is a look at an ISC Independent Patrol Cruiser, one of the few ship classes which the Concordium would send on lone patrols (instead of deploying solely as part of larger Echelon formations). The CAT is a variant of the Star Cruiser (which you can see in Ship Card form over here), but has a third plasma-S torpedo in place of the plasmatic pulsar device on the prow of the CA. So, if you wanted to test the rear-firing suite, you can do so without having to worry about what kind of stats a PPD would need.

Does the rule seem okay as written so far, or are there any other suggestions as to how to handle the ISC rear-firing torpedo suite?

 

[Myrm]

Part of the problem is that at the moment using PLasma Fs against drones isnt in the game and we are guessing a little about how fighters work.

You could simply mark the weapon systems down a one plasma F each side (or 2 for the BB) - that being the level it can fire normally so the core 'what the weapon is'. Remove the Reload trait for having the multiple weapons. Thats a basic kludge of it but doesnt reflect the special allowances.

For that - add a 'Plasma Bank (X)' trait where the line is that the weapon counts as X Plasma D weapons for defensive fire or for shooting at shuttles/fighters rather than firing normally.

Its not a direct translation - plasma Ds are weaker than Fs but still hurt fighters and for antidrone work fits into an established ACTA path. MAke the numbers the same as the nujmber of Fs and you can kinda of assume the Fs are being shotgunned a bit (OK OK I know says he looking at the SFB players), but one F is being held so as to ignore reload restrictions.

You have a plasma F system that on average puts out the roughly same as the SFB/FC one but does it within established ACTA rules (ie no sudden Fs in defensive fire change). It makes assumption on style and you still might struggle taking out 3 heavy fighters as opposed to 3 light ones because the idea above doesnt allow the extreme of all the Fs firing quite but its close enough and easy enough and does the job of the translation reasonably.

 

[Nerroth]

In Federation Commander, the rules for rear-firing plasma-Fs explicitly allow them to be used in Defensive Fire; they don't have to be targeted only at drones (or suicide shuttles) that are still on the board. This, in my view, would justify allowing them to be used in Defensive Fire against incoming drones in ACtA:SF terms. (In the case of suicide shuttles, they don't detonate until the End Phase in this game, so an ISC ship would be launching an -F "offensively" to try and shoot one down before it impacts. Unless I'm reading the rules wrong on this, which may well be the case.)

Technically, the FC rules also allow for gunboats to be fired at offensively using the rear-firing -Fs, but that is more to do with future-proofing the weapon rules than anything, since there are no PFs formally published in that game system as of yet. (And depending on whether or not they get carted off to the Borders of Madness, they may not end up in "vanilla" FC at all.)

I wouldn't be too sure about mixing in the plasma-D stats here, not least since there are a handful of ISC ships that have Pl-D racks as well as banks of aft-firing Pl-Fs. (One such example is the War Dreadnought from SFB Module R9, though it's not confirmed one way or another whether or not any were ever built. Not that this would matter too much for ACtA:SF, of course.)

Although, there are two other issues to deal with here; whether or not they can be used in tandem with Intensify Defensive Fire!, or if ships with the Escort Trait can support friendly ships with them.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Getting complex again.

Keep it simple.

Adding in new rules to allow them to work like ADDs or to not need a reload is just making them more complex which adds another special rule to a race that is getting a new weapon with its own special rules.

Its 2, 4 or 6 Plasma Fs with an Aft arc. Only one a turn can be fired at a ship. Any number can be fired at a small target (shuttles, fighters, interceptors, gunboats, Drones or anything else to be added later that is identified as a small target).
You can fire them for the whole battle without needing to reload or any that have been fired get reloaded automatically when the main torpedoes are reloaded

In terms of Plasma Fs engaging Drones. A Drone can target a Drone so why not, that would simply require someone to prod Mathew for an answer :wink: . I wouldn't use anything big for that and I don't want shotguns or pseudo torpedoes etc arriving to expand the rules. Simply saying that any seeking weapon can be fired at a Drone (as it stands Plasma Ds can be fired at Drones within 8" on escorts so the precedent is already set).

 

[Nerroth]

Shotguns and pseudoes don't exist in FC, and you can't use a shotgun out of a plasma-F launcher in SFB anyway. (Shotguns produce multiple plasma-Fs out of larger launchers instead.)

The ability to use the aft-mounted -Fs to shoot down drones in Defensive Fire would be an empire-specific Trait for the ISC, so probably wouldn't be worth asking for an official ruling on until the Concordium are up for development. (Unless you are saying you want a Gorn or Romulan escort to be able to shoot down drones with its plasma-F launchers, but that is another story.)

I would agree that the -Fs should be reloaded along with the "regular" plasmas (and, presumably, the PPDs) on an ISC ship, I think they should be used up one at a time when launched, regardless of whether or not it's being used offensively or defensively. Unlike plasma-D racks, each torpedo still has to be warmed up the old-fashioned way; plus the ISC shouldn't get too many benefits from the system beyond what they are due. (And I say this as an ISC fan, but I would already envision them being able to mount an effective layered defence against seeking weapons while flying in Echelon formation. While this is well and good, I wouldn't want things to go too far overboard in tems of just how well an Echelon can handle an incoming drone or plasma swarm.)

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Always considered you could use F types to kill drones (though it's a bit overkill as you use 2AD to kill 1AD, then have to reload). Most plasma escorts swap out the F tpyes for D racks, so not so much of an issue, especially when operating in ADD mode.

 

[Nerroth]

I was thinking about some of the ideas in the thread, and wanted to have a go at an alternate rule option here; but in the meantime, this pic gives a clearer example of where those banks of rear-firing torpedoes go on larger ISC ships.

(Here's hoping the 2500-series ships for the Concordium will look at least this good!)

 

[Nerroth]

I've worked up an alternate take on the CAT's stat sheet, with only a single line covering the torpedo that can be fired at a ship, and a set of boxes to indiate those used in other ways. (The green-shaded boxes are the A, P torpedoes; the plain boxes A, S.)

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ISC Aft Torpedo Suite X + Y: Designed in order to counter waves of enemy seeking weapons and attrition units, most Inter-Stellar Concordium starships mounted a suite of aft-firing Plasma-F Torpedoes tied to a fire control system optimised for use against smaller targets. If a Plasma-F Torpedo on an ISC ship is marked with an *, it is tied into this weapons suite. (Most ships have no more than one such torpedo present; the Battleship is an exception, as it has two such entries.)

If this torpedo is launched offensively against a ship, one of the boxes on the ISC A.T.S. line must be marked, as it counts as one of the uses of that suite in a given turn. (There are two sets of boxes in this line; each green box covers the A, P arc, while the white boxes represent the A, S arc instead.) If the torpedo was fired at a ship in its P or S arc, it must mark the appropriate colour box on the line; launches in the A arc may be marked off either track. (On a Battleship, the two aft-firing Plasma-F torpedoes that can be launched at ships do not overlap, so must be marked from their respective colour sets instead.)

The remaining boxes represent torpedoes which may be used to target non-ship units (such as shuttles) offensively, or which may instead be used to counter a single Attack Die of Drones during Defensive Fire. These apply only if the non-ship target (or Drone-launching ship) lies within a given suite box's firing arc. Use of any such option removes a box on a one-for-one bases.

All of these boxes (to include those used offensively against ships) are reloaded at the same time as other reloadable weapons, when using the Reload Weapons! Special Action.

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Well, that ended up a lot longer than I expected...

While the ship has less weapons listed, the rules needed to explain the alternate setup are more convoluted. I'm not sure how worthwhile a trade that would be.

Any thoughts?