Is there any point in a newb getting into this game anymore?

[Stone Evil]

It's all great and well that many of you experienced players have rushed to get those last few ships to complete your fleets. And no doubt, you will all continue to come here to talk strategy amongst yourselves.
But for the people new to the game ( like me who just purchased the two revised books and were planning on getting into two factions ) is there really a point? Most of us wouldn't want to use counters. Getting into the game now would be very strange... it seems like it has become dormant, possibly never to awaken again. One must admit, this isn't an attractive prospect for players new to ACTA.
Should we stick to BFG?

 

[darklord4]

Should we stick to BFG?

There are 3 things that are good about ACTA, IMO.
1 it is based on B5 (may or may not affect all)

2 it is miniature agnostic. You do not need to buy 'proper' minis to play the game. You can cobble, draw, or sculpt your own and it still plays the same due to the using of center points for ranging. (I think there is still an official ruling pending about base contact between fighters and ships) This is big to me as I do not need another miniature game to spend money on. While I like building and painting things (I am building a Centauri fleet as seen in another thread), I do not NEED to have the official minis to play, which to me is the important thing...see next

3 the game is fun. The game is fast enough and (to steal a description of another game) it is simple without being simplified down to nothing. There is a strategy to moving, moving order, fire order, fleet construction. There is just enough detail to make it interesting without a huge amount of book keeping.

That said I would also offer the following:
If your group contains miniaturistas(those that require ONLY official pieces be used and MUST be used...very GWy to me ), this would not be a game to pick up now unless you have gobs of money to buy all ships you'll ever want. Alternatively, you could use your BFG fleets as proxies or 'counts-as' models, e.g. Imperials use earthforce ship stats, Eldar are Centauri or Minbari, Orks are Narn.

If you require constant updates to rules with new flash gitz etc, this game will probably not be for you. MGP has stated that they will continue supporting ACTA through S&P, but with all their Evolution games coming out and new versions of VaS as well, I'm thinking the wargaming MGP people will be putting more time into developing those than ACTA.

 

[JayRaider]

Ebay will always have ACTA models for years to come.
For example, agents of gamings babylon 5 wars models (the same as ACTA) are still available on ebay and that company end production about 4-5 years ago.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

If you do a search on line you can still even find retailers who have plentiful stock.

 

[chainmailler]

It's absolutly worth buying into it while you still can, for one becuase that is what I'm doing, making a rather large minbari fleet, and then a campiagn sized fleet of Abbai. And I only looked into this feburary, and I don't own the rule books.

 

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I must say that yes it is worth it. I have 2 friends who just got their first fleets and we will continue to play for a long time.

And like everyone else has already said, there will be ship on e-bay for a long time.

 

[warlok]

But for the people new to the game ( like me who just purchased the two revised books and were planning on getting into two factions ) is there really a point? Most of us wouldn't want to use counters. Getting into the game now would be very strange... it seems like it has become dormant, possibly never to awaken again. One must admit, this isn't an attractive prospect for players new to ACTA.
Should we stick to BFG?

If you are worried about sticker shock on a new fleet then go the way of Fleet Action minis. Inexpensive and look just like there big brothers. All you need to do is put some proper size bases on them and "Ta-Da!" instant fleet.

 

[Chernobyl]

Honestly, I'd say I'm on the fence about it. If running the foundry didn't make a profit for them (otherwise, why wouldn't it stay running?) how are we to know it will ever re-open.

the next pert we cretainly garner me some flak, so that's your rant warning...

The only mongoose products I've ever bought are related to babylon 5. (the only exception being a PDF copy of Victory at Sea) Minis, Counters, PDFs, 1st and 2nd edition Babylon 5 RPG, ACTA, ACTA revised, ACTA 2nd edition. So I'll limit my remarks to products I have familiarity with.

honestly, I'm not sure what to think of the future of mongoose due to some bad things I've seen. Deck plan sheets on posters. Not very useful. No official reference sheets, ship cards, no matter how popular they are in the online fan community. Probably the worst is the debacle with the new ACTA red books. my rulebook has now completely come apart, and will wind up being spiral bound in short order. the fleet book is staying put, but the cover is still warped. Armageddon models that never were. Brivioki, ZTakk, the one year wait for drakh motherships. Short product cycles - how long between ACTA, ACTA revised, Tournament lists, Armageddon, 2nd edition? Constant rebalancing of ships and priority levels, and of the FAP breakdown - arguably the most core mechanic of the game? broken ships. broken fleets. on and on. And now shutting down production of minis.

What have they done well?
Signs and portents. still a very good online resource years after it started as online-only. good stuff!
great forums. lots of good people here, friendly environment, easy to communicate with.
Prize support. They've come through in spades, even for non-official, non mobile infantry tournament runners like myself. Even got to meet the big cheese (Matt!) out here at Kublacon a while back. almost wrangled him into a tournament...silly autograph session... :wink:
New models. Hyperions, the new Brakiri ships (Brivioki excluded!), the NEW new Ztakk, the new drakh ships are pretty good. rescaled olympus.
VAS. great rules adaption. fighter rules need work, I think though...been a while since I looked at it.

In any event, I suppose my point is that its very hit and miss. some things mongoose does well. others its does not. I suppose my biggest concern really is that they've become their own printer. They may have a professional quality press, but that does not make one a professionsal quality printer. And they learned the hard way with the ill will it caused in the distribution channels with the loads of returned product due to books falling apart. And if there's no minis being sold, then this is how they're left making money. I leave you with that thought.

Chern

 

[Stone Evil]

Thanks, all, for your replies. Some very good arguments. I'm such a fan of the show...my wife and I are watching the series again for the third time. We're currently in the second season again. Whenever I watch it, I'm inspired to buy my Centauri and Narn fleets.

 

[JayRaider]

In any event, I suppose my point is that its very hit and miss. some things mongoose does well. others its does not. I suppose my biggest concern really is that they've become their own printer. They may have a professional quality press, but that does not make one a professionsal quality printer. And they learned the hard way with the ill will it caused in the distribution channels with the loads of returned product due to books falling apart. And if there's no minis being sold, then this is how they're left making money. I leave you with that thought.

Hi Chern, they've dropped there inhouse printing now. Just announced a few days ago. They signed up a US established printers.
ACTA was making profits. However it alone couldn't keep the foundry working. The foundry was only using 33% of its output and Mongoose were subsidising the rest. They had planned to increase this with ST Evo but when those plans collapsed so did the viability of continueing the foundry subsized for another year. (From Matt Sprange earlier post).
Couple these factors with the disastorous printing which hit customer confidence like a freight train.
And the failure of BFE.
All round its been a nightmare.

 

[Zhai_ Morenn]

I'm also a BFG player expanding into ACTA and because ACTA is not anal about models being the Mongoose production ones, I'm supplementing my Crusade Era EA fleet with BFG Tau ships. I'm using the Explorer as a Poseidon Super Carrier, a Hero as either an extra Marathon or a Warlock (not sure yet on that one, though prolly a Warlock.), and some Defenders as Chronos frigs. You could do something similar if you so desired.

 

[clausewitz]

Firstly, since it's my first post, hello everyone.

As a new player perhaps I can offer a different perspective from the established players of ACTA.

A bit of background. I have played various wargames over the years, recently the main two have been WFB and Epic:Armageddon (I would say EA, but here that means something else ). I have about 5 armies in each, so although I am more of a gamer than a painter/collector I do enjoy the modelling side of things.

I found ACTA by accident, I bought the rule books last weekend on a whim as I'd enjoyed the show. Without really thinking I'd play the game. However, after reading the rules I was keen to try it out.

I discovered that the game mechanics were pretty simple* but sufficiently complex that the game played quickly but had plenty of depth. The fleet lists also had a lot of character, with the ships performing in a manner that seemed to fit the background/show.
(*Ok, getting my head around the various permutations of Priority Level Battles/Ships and FAPs first time was a struggle. Though from the threads I have trawled it seems I am not alone in needing a second look at these.)

In short I discovered that ACTA is an enjoyable game.

The campaign system looks interesting too (if you are familiar with the BFG campaign system then you will have a good idea of how this works).

So I decided that I would go ahead and buy some minis for the game. My local store only had the Early EA fleet box, so I went ahead and bought it. I have to say that I was quite surprised at the size of the ships (much bigger than I'd expected). The sheer amount of metal for the price was way above what I'd come to expect from... some other manufacturers.

So with the fleets being such good value (IMO) my friend and I put in a £300 order today (why not take advantage of the discount). Enough to put together a few small-mid sized fleets that we can use (or lend to our friends to get them playing). We ordered a counter set to make up any ships we don't have, or fleets we didn't buy, but with a good selection of the "iconic" ships (Omega, G'Quan, Vorchan etc) we hope our fleets have the B5 look.

I don't expect to find anything like the number of players that there are for WFB etc. But a small group aiming to play some campaigns should be possible.

I will also echo the comment that the online community adds a great deal to a game. In my few days lurking here I gleaned a great deal of helpful information (particular thanks to ComicJester for his map kit download and Burger's fleet builder, both excellent resources). And,while I'm still new, folks seem pretty friendly I even noticed some familiar names from TacCom and other gaming forums!

Now I just need to wait patiently for my ships to arrive.. :?

 

[Banichi]

Minis or not it is still a fun game to play. You could try looking for people who still have fleets from the old B5 games, fleet action, and B5 Wars. A couple of people showed up at the demos a few weeks ago who actually had fleets(not with them, at home) but didn't know that there was a current B5 game. And proxying isn't too bad, as long as every one knows what is what.

 

[CZuschlag]

Actually, if there ever was a time to get into it, now is it. Or never. It depends on if you have a local group that will play the game or not.

Consider the great board wargames out there -- World in Flames, Breakout: Normandy, Microarmour, The Europa Series, Russian Campaign, Flat Top, Empires in Arms, Victory in the Pacific, Panzergruppe Guderian. Several have been out of print for long periods of time, but they keep getting taken off the shelf for play week after week. That's because whether or not it's out of print doesn't matter -- there is a local community that will play the game, and it's fun. There's enough of them that they decided to reprint The Russian Campaign, charge $80 for it --- and it still sells!

But wouldn't you have rather paid the original $30 for that game instead of $80? That's what this is kind of like (not as much a difference, but still.) If you have a local group of players that are committed to the game, now is the BEST time to get into it.

The flip side of it is this -- if you have no local community committed to the game, don't. Because nothing is worth less than a game that nobody plays. My Chronopia army is testament to that.