Is The Conan RPG for me?

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Anonymous

Guest
Ok so basically I want to play a Low-Magic gritty realistic setting. Conan seems to be what I want, but I'm confused on one thing are the Dodge and Parry Bonus pretty much 2 different Defense Classes and you can pick which one to use according to the situation? If so I'd rather just have a Defense Class since I think that you wouldnt just dodge or just parry but rather you'd do both and if your in trouble you'd fight defensively(as in d&d). Oh and I also want to adapt the Vitality/Wound point system from Star Wars to this gamesystem if I do get it, has anyone tried this and if so did it work well?
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
Guest said:
Ok so basically I want to play a Low-Magic gritty realistic setting. Conan seems to be what I want, but I'm confused on one thing are the Dodge and Parry Bonus pretty much 2 different Defense Classes and you can pick which one to use according to the situation?

Pretty much.

Conan isn't really a low magic setting, it's quite the opposite, since you encounter quite a few sorcerous opponents in the typical Conan adventure. It's more like a low-magic item setting.

If so I'd rather just have a Defense Class since I think that you wouldnt just dodge or just parry but rather you'd do both and if your in trouble you'd fight defensively(as in d&d).

It's a bit more complicated than that. e.g. You can parry pretty much in any location you're fighting in, but you can only dodge if you have one "free" adjacent square. Also, feats like dodge obviously only bump up your dodge DV.

Oh and I also want to adapt the Vitality/Wound point system from Star Wars to this gamesystem if I do get it, has anyone tried this and if so did it work well?

I don't think this is such a good idea. Conan already is a more deadly world because of a number of factors:

1. Less hp than D&D
2. More damage with weapons than D&D (e.g. A Bardiche does 2d10 damage)
3. Massive damage threshold is 20. Though failing this only drops you to -1 hp and doesn't out and out kill you.

If you used the Vitality/Wound point system of Star Wars chances are all your PCs would die, and with great frequency, mainly because of point number 2.
 

SableWyvern

Mongoose
I think the weapon damage could be easily returned to d20 norms. I would be more concerned with the effects of armour on the WP/VP system, although if armour as DV is already integrated into standard WP/VP, this probably wouldn't be an issue either.

From what I've heard, OGL: Ancients might be more to your liking - more brutal than Conan, but a little slower in combat resolution. Potentially more magic-friendly, however (just considering the nature of ancient mythology).
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
SableWyvern said:
I think the weapon damage could be easily returned to d20 norms. I would be more concerned with the effects of armour on the WP/VP system, although if armour as DV is already integrated into standard WP/VP, this probably wouldn't be an issue either.

The Revised Star Wars RPG uses pretty much the same system as Conan, in that armor does not provide a bonus to DV, and instead provides damage reduction. It's also similar in that you get bonuses to your DV based on your class.

Still, I wouldn't implement a VP/WP system in Conan. Why? I'm of the school that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and as I see it, the hp system in Conan ain't broke.
 

Sutek

Mongoose
Guest said:
Ok so basically I want to play a Low-Magic gritty realistic setting. Conan seems to be what I want, but I'm confused on one thing are the Dodge and Parry Bonus pretty much 2 different Defense Classes and you can pick which one to use according to the situation? If so I'd rather just have a Defense Class since I think that you wouldnt just dodge or just parry but rather you'd do both and if your in trouble you'd fight defensively(as in d&d). Oh and I also want to adapt the Vitality/Wound point system from Star Wars to this gamesystem if I do get it, has anyone tried this and if so did it work well?

VP/WP is a bad idea for Conan because the C:RPG sytem already has a Massive Damage system for brutal wounds. C:RPG also allows for lots of non-lethal damage to be inflicted due to environmental sources, so this is not dissimilar from VP anyway.

DV is a base 10 like in other D20 games, and the choice of Parry or Dodge is sort of akin to being able to suddenly put on the best suit of armor for a giving situation. There's a lot of rules for Defense, so I won't go into them all, but the deal is that some Character Classes have better Parry bonuses and others have better Dodge, right in the same table as BAB and Attacks per round. What happens is that the typically high DEX Classes end up being better at Dodging and the high STR Classes end up being better at Parrying (generally speaking) and the remainder of the combat system holds this method up nicely. Since Srmor doesn't add to Defense, the Dodge and Parry options act the same way.

Interestingly, the norm is also for Dodge bonuses to be higher. This seems imballanced until one takes into account that a free square is needed on the combat grid in order to use Dodge; not so with Parry.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Massive damage can easily be removed with a VP/WP system. The Weapons in the SWRPG have higher damage and it uses a VP/WP system. So how is the magic? Is it at least subtle, like magicians dont fry everything they see with Fireballs?
 

MightyCthulhu

Mongoose
You will not see wizards leading armies of undead, blasting away armies with fireballs or flying/teleporting all over the world.

You will see power-mad sorcers performing all manner of unpleasant deeds including making bargains with demons, performing sacrifices (human and otherwise) and torturing people. Sorcerers are just as likely to use poisons and drugs on their victims as anything else.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ok so they're like that sorcer witch woman in that movie Kull, right?
 

Sutek

Mongoose
Casters use WIS+4 spell points to cast spells with as a base. Spells cost 2pts or more and the lower end is for very simple and non-threatening spells like Wards and stuff like that.

Casters can get extremely powerful, but they will increasingly rely on minions to protect them as the Scholar Class from which casters develop is both low HD and all skills and feats must be put toward casting to really get awesome. Spells are also skill and feat dependant, almost as if they are feats themselves. This makes casters have to keep to a specific track in order to cast the few spells in the School they choose. In a sense they are like Sorcerers in D&D, but in Conan a first level caster may only have a single spell because he needs more ranks in a skill or other feats.

Also, regarding the VP/WP and "eliminating Massive Damage", it's not an option unless you toss out the entirety of the Conan combat system. With AP (armor piercing) and armor providing DR rather than Defense bonus, Finesse Weapons which can ignore Armor DR and the fact that natural 20s always succeed, a VP/WP system will make the game far too deadly. There's just no need for it.

I ask you this: What is your reason for wanting to use that system? Without reading the full extent of the Conan system I don't think you can make an informed decision. There is a huge thread on these boards discussing this topic at length here:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3478
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I just really like it, I guess hitpoints represent the same thing but its just a preference
 

Sutek

Mongoose
I like VP/WP a lot too, but it's not at all the same as HP as used in Conan. I brought it up once berfore, in that thread I noted, and was reminded of all the reasons it wouldn't work in Conan.

In the VP/WP system, VP have to be depleted entirely before WP are diminished unles a Critical Hit is scored, in which case all damage goes directly to WP instead of VP.

There are various non-lethal damage levels involved in depleated VP, but they don't need to exist in Conan because of the way that type of damage works. In Conan, non-lethal damage works in concert with current HP. If your non-lethal damage equals you current HP your character is Staggered (you may make either a standard or move action each round but not both) and if non-lethal damage exceeds your current HP, you are Unconcious. Compared to a VP/WP system like Spycraft, all VP must be lost or special damage types (tasers, Zat'nik'tels, poisons that can instantly cause VP to drop to zero) where as in Conan the posibility continually fluctuates.

Crits are about the only way to really drop someone instantly in a VP/WP system, and that's why it is more suited to games where conventional modern firearms are present (Spycraft/SG1). More damage in one shot isn't as important as increased Threat Ranges and inflicting instantaneous brutal damage as a result. In Conan, inflicting 20+ points of damage above Armor DR forces a FORT Saving Throw versus DC10+half damage dealt. This is called a Massive Damage Save and failure results in instantly dropping to zero HP and dying (unless some of the damage inflicted was somehow nonleathal, in which case the victim is merely Unconcious). At mid-range Experience Levels, this system is much more deadly and is so as a direct result of character Strength as well as other genre related close combat Feats.

I'm not trying to refute the VP/WP system used in some other games, nor am I trying to change your mind about using it in Conan. But since the point of this thread is to determine if Conan is the game for you, I'd say "it is" if you want to use the very cool, very brutal combat and damage system inherent to it, and "it is not" if you want to try something else. I truly feel insterting a VP/WP system will work for a while, but that the system as is in the book is far superior and you'd be much happier with if you tried it out.

What are the points you like about a VP/WP system specifically, unless I've covered counter arguments already (which I probably have - lol).

PS. See Argo, you aren't the only one who can type a novella's worth of texxt in a simple, casual response....:p
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well it's just I want to try something new. In normal d&d you have the massive damage threshold but it's much higher, i think. Anyways when I play normal d&d the Massive Damage threshold is equal to your con. I think what I'm going to do is wait a bit and maybe pick it up in a few months cause currently its like $70(Canadian) at Curious Comics which is alot for a RPG book, that or I'll get my friend to buy it and DM, lol which is what I'd prefer been DMing alot lately and I really want to roll up a Character and hack something to peices lol :)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I went through a number of these issues recently.

Sutek will no doubt shoot me down :) but I think VP and WP can work fine for Conan. Conan stories have a number of situatiosn where Conan is taken down by a lucky (not necessarily heavily damaging) shot. VP/WP also makes the PCs more robust as VP's heal quickly Finally, current DRs probably need no change as they currently stand. However, you do need to take into account a number of other subsequent changes such as dropping Massive Damage saves, changing healing rates etc.

I ended up opting not to do it as it was just too many changes for my liking. I went for a simpler change in making Massive Damage Saves trigger on criticals (DC set as under current system) rather than on 20 or more HP. This produces a similar result to that of VP/WP but uses all the other rules as they currently stand.

The result is that there is a ominpresent perception that someone can be taken down with one shot is but in reality as Fortitude increases and PCs would otherwise eventually get 20 HP damage reasonably regularly without criticals, it actually makes PCs a little more robust and fits the pulp feel.

Food for thought.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Oh yeah thats the other thing, I like the players recovering with a few hours rest... unless its an actual fleshwound.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Anonymous said:
Oh yeah thats the other thing, I like the players recovering with a few hours rest... unless its an actual fleshwound.

Conan has advanced the recovery rates for HP and Attributes quite a bit.
 
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