Is it the charm?

[howardfanatic]

I have had Traveller 1st edition, Megatraveller, and T20 in the past. I liked some of the things about the game. Particularly the system. However, holy crap! the complexity of starship design and the constricting "Military only" type of feel left me feeling cold.
My question is this: how is the new Traveller different? Is it simpler? Does it allow for play in other settings, such as Star Trek, Dune, Foundation/Empire, Neuromancer, or Star Wars?
Could someone give me some info? I've never found a sci fi game that suited me as far as offering a playable system and the ability to play it over a variety of sci fi genres. Is the new Traveller what I'm looking for, or is it a Traveller Universe rpg?

 

[EDG]

Given that a Babylon 5 setting book is about to be released and a Judge Dredd one is in the pipeline, I think MGT should be able to handle a variety of SF settings

 

[AndrewW]

Given that a Babylon 5 setting book is about to be released and a Judge Dredd one is in the pipeline, I think MGT should be able to handle a variety of SF settings

You left out Hammer Slammer's.

While the military careers have gotten some attention with Mercenary and High Guard in particular, there are plenty of other options for career's as well. Psion due out next month (though some of it's career's are military nowhere near all) and Agent due out in May. A Traveller game can certainly have a military feel to it but is in no way restricted to this. You can play the game you want to with it. Could be trading, exploration, troubleshooters for higher, ect.

 

[GypsyComet]

Players will always want big guns, so the military side of the setting is important whether or not you use it for military operations. Similarly, any dabbling in vehicle design has to be able to take military needs into account, since even exploratory vehicles can go "paramilitary" very quickly. The same applies to starships. Even if you play in an area away from organized star navies, *someone* will be up-gunning for protection, extortion or both, and so bigger and more weapons and armor are important parts of ship design.

PCs in Traveller can and will take advantage of their former careers if given the chance, so some details of military life are a necessary part of prior careers, even if its just ranks within service. An example in my own game last week was our Marine hooking up with a local retired Marine and chatting about both "one time on Zeycude" and about the local conditions and history, so when it came time to need *some* idea of the local history, it wasn't our doctor or the ex-Scout, but the Marine who had an idea about the ramifications of their find.

 

[howardfanatic]

I'm still wondering how it is different from previous editions. I am heartened to hear other settings beside Traveller's default are being produced. Judge Dredd in particular could be fun. Not a big Deep Space 9... wait, Babylon 5 fan. Give me original Star Trek or leave me alone as far as TV properties.
Let me be specific with my questions:
Is the starship design still a mathematical puzzle that I require multiple degrees and MONTHS of prep time to use, or is it streamlined so I can make my ships and get to playing?
Is it possible to play characters who are not in the military?
Is it possible to emmulate the Force?
Are there rules covering cyberpunk standards like cybernetics, transhuman genetics, and psychic abilities?
Did they update the thoroughly silly 30K/3 ton technology of classic Traveller?
Can you play robots or androids?
Do they still insist on being tiresome about the lack of energy weapons (not realistic- yes I freakin' know, but they're part of the fun)?
I'll ask more later.
I really want to buy this game, but I want to make sure I'm not disappointed this time like I was previously.

 

[GypsyComet]

Is the starship design still a mathematical puzzle that I require multiple degrees and MONTHS of prep time to use, or is it streamlined so I can make my ships and get to playing?

Depends on your level of math. MGT is mostly addition and a bit of decimal multiplication.

Is it possible to play characters who are not in the military?

The game is slanted toward EX-whatevers, not actives, but MGT includes prior careers for scholars, "citizens", and "drifters", in addition to the usual rogueish sorts and Merchants.

Is it possible to emulate the Force?

Traveller defaults to a weak form of psi instead of the strong form that The Force represents. You can emulate stronger psi by changing or dropping power point usage, dropping Teleportation completely, and adding a genetic component (which Traveller lacks for good reasons).

Are there rules covering cyberpunk standards like cybernetics, transhuman genetics, and psychic abilities?

There is some cyberware in the basic book, and I suspect more is on the way. That said, if you have the Chrome books from Cyberpunk, you really don't need much else.

Transhumanism really only needs a guidance document, since Traveller is not a point-based game. Grafting something like GURPS Transhuman Space (or its shopping list) into Traveller would not be hard.

Psychic abilities? What types? The Psionic rules cover a lot of the usual territory, with the "Special" category for the oddities like Psychometry.

Did they update the thoroughly silly 30K/3 ton technology of classic Traveller?

This would be about computers? The "Ship's Computer" has ceased to have a discrete volume in MGT, if that's your concern.

Can you play robots or androids?

Not with rigorous rules so far, but that's probably not far off, considering the pace Mongoose is moving at.

Do they still insist on being tiresome about the lack of energy weapons (not realistic- yes I freakin' know, but they're part of the fun)?

Traveller has always had energy weapons. Are you thinking of things like a Star Wars style Blaster? Or is "energy weapons" code for "light sabers"?

I really want to buy this game, but I want to make sure I'm not disappointed this time like I was previously.

Traveller comes from a period in Science Fiction and gaming when "roll your own" was still a strong ideal. Just because a game doesn't come out of the box with some of these things doesn't mean it can't have them. Traveller even helps this along by not being (except in two more recent cases) built around points or any sense of "balance". You are what you are, and you have what you have. The universe will (if the ref is worth his title) compensate for any silliness shortly.

On the assumption that you have some references from other games for the elements you mention above, the things to decide so that you can convert them to Traveller are simple:

For weaponry its Price, Damage, and Necessary Skill. Details like ammo capacities and rates of fire are probably already described and don't need to be changed.

Cyberware and transhuman options need price and effect on statistics. You'll also need to figure out where some of it fits in the Tech level chart (for availability) and Law Level chart (for obvious reasons).

Psionics (including The Force, etc) are really a "to taste" element in SF. The basics are there to take a hammer to if so desired. Ask if you have a specific conversion question.

In light of some of your later questions, you might need to add some extra stuff to ship building. The same "rules" apply: Make it up, or ask for reasonable conversions here.

One caveat for asking here or any other Traveller forum. Always let us/them know that you are home-brewing your setting. Otherwise the "That's impossible!" crowd will come out of the woodwork. They might anyway, but being able to point at your own disclaimer will usually shut them down.

 

[howardfanatic]

Thanks for answering. I am going to be a pest, though. :twisted:
T20 spends an entire paragraph defending its lack of energy weapons, ala blasters and phasers. Classic Traveller's computer tech was so outlandishly outdated it made Murphy's Rules. Megatraveller's starship creation system was the most needlessly complex system of ship creation I have seen since Mekton Z Plus. I like some detail, but dayumn!
If I get Traveller, I will mostly likely use it to play in a homebrewed version of Asimov's Robots/Foundation settings. However, I also like Gibson's cyberpunk stuff, Mobile Suit Gundam, Clarke's 2001 series, and Frank Herbert's Dune saga, so I am interested in those elements as well. I see Asimov's universe as easily capable of integrating the parts that I like. However...
The Traveller I have expereinced so far could do Star Trek... and that's about it. Now, I am an old school, dyed in the wool Trekkie, so that is fine with me, but my players enjoy games like Star Wars and Shadowrun. They like fantasy with a bit of sci fi. I like sci fi with a little bit of fantasy. I'd like to meet about halfway. Can Traveller let me do that?
For example, if I'd like a Shadowrun/Cyberpunk atmosphere in the Sol System using Lovecraftian aliens and psychic powers based on parapsychological study, is that possible for Traveller?
If I want to do a Star Wars game where Sith nanites get loose, causing a wave of horrific genetic mutations- is that possible?
If I want to do a game set in an undersea city where Campbell's Thing gets loose and it's up to the robots that humanity has sentenced to die to save them- can I do that?
If I'd like to do a Battletech style war game- is that possible?
In the past, I've been told Traveller is a great D&D style game. That is, it can have the Traveller setting, or it can be made into any generic sci fi setting desired. I have not seen this side of the game. I want to, but the Traveller I have seen is pretty locked into the setting, which does next to nothing for me. Is it possible to divorce the rules of the game from the setting?
Maybe I should just go for BRP...

 

[AndrewW]

Traveller can be made into any setting you desire. As for the force, well the Psionics book due out in April adds some towards this.

There is nothing that says you have to follow the default Traveller setting. You can still set your game say in the Spinward Marches and use that map wise while changing other stuff if you desire. I never had a problem with the starship creation in either Classic Traveller or Mongoose Traveller but then that's me, other opinions may vary. I'de actually rather see a more detailed system but that isn't for everyone. Classic Traveller had Book 8: Robots, alas isn't one currently available for Mongoose Traveller. Certainly some energy weapons like lasers are available.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

MGT still leans more toward slug throwers than energy weapons on the personal scale but they are there. There is a Laser Pistol (call it a blaster if you want to).

I hope that upcoming publications will expand on this and other topics. With the OGL, I wouldn't be suprised to see someone publish an "ultra tech" book for Traveller covering TL12+ designs. It just isn't out there yet.

 

[AndrewW]

MGT still leans more toward slug throwers than energy weapons on the personal scale but they are there. There is a Laser Pistol (call it a blaster if you want to).

I hope that upcoming publications will expand on this and other topics. With the OGL, I wouldn't be suprised to see someone publish an "ultra tech" book for Traveller covering TL12+ designs. It just isn't out there yet.

Certainly lots of slug throwers abound but there is up to TL 19 designs in Central Supply Catalogue. The higher TL's tend toward energy type weapons.

Subject to change without notice.

 

[GypsyComet]

T20 spends an entire paragraph defending its lack of energy weapons, ala blasters and phasers. Classic Traveller's computer tech was so outlandishly outdated it made Murphy's Rules. Megatraveller's starship creation system was the most needlessly complex system of ship creation I have seen since Mekton Z Plus. I like some detail, but dayumn!

I remember playtesting the Mekton ACS, so I'm afraid you'll get little sympathy from me...
T20 was, more than most, firmly set within the OTU, so the tech presented in the book was going to be consistent with the OTU. So no blasters.

The Traveller I have expereinced so far could do Star Trek... and that's about it. Now, I am an old school, dyed in the wool Trekkie, so that is fine with me, but my players enjoy games like Star Wars and Shadowrun. They like fantasy with a bit of sci fi. I like sci fi with a little bit of fantasy. I'd like to meet about halfway. Can Traveller let me do that?

The core mechanic is so simple that just about anything should be easy to adapt.

For example, if I'd like a Shadowrun/Cyberpunk atmosphere in the Sol System using Lovecraftian aliens and psychic powers based on parapsychological study, is that possible for Traveller?

You'll want a Sanity rule to go with the rest, but the framework for the rest is already there. You may want to find a copy of GDWs "Dark Conspiracy". It used the same rules as Traveller TNE and covers many of the topics you mention here.

If I want to do a Star Wars game where Sith nanites get loose, causing a wave of horrific genetic mutations- is that possible?

You'll be writing some of those rules yourself, but with 2.5 sets of SW mechanics to work with and nano being "magic", you should find it fairly easy.

If I want to do a game set in an undersea city where Campbell's Thing gets loose and it's up to the robots that humanity has sentenced to die to save them- can I do that?

Robot PCs vs The Thing? That's stretching the available tools a bit, but should be doable.

If I'd like to do a Battletech style war game- is that possible?

Battletech started as a Traveller campaign.

In the past, I've been told Traveller is a great D&D style game. That is, it can have the Traveller setting, or it can be made into any generic sci fi setting desired. I have not seen this side of the game. I want to, but the Traveller I have seen is pretty locked into the setting, which does next to nothing for me. Is it possible to divorce the rules of the game from the setting?

The setting manifests in the rules largely as available technology choices and career options. Tweaking the careers and importing a new set of tech assumptions is not as hard as you think, but you aren't going to get it on a platter.

 

[whtknght]

MGT still leans more toward slug throwers than energy weapons on the personal scale but they are there. There is a Laser Pistol (call it a blaster if you want to).

Does Universe of B5 cover PPGs? It appeared that all the races in B5 universe used energy weapons.

 

[Donkeykong]

It is interesting to follow the above thread and notice that Classic Traveller was released in 1977 following the Star Wars film release.
Of course, lacking any other background material, this is what most refs I knew drew very heavily on (with no problems).
The "realistic" background seemed to "Ground" the Science Fantasy that is Star Wars quite well. I have been disappointed with the Pulp Comic book feel of the various Star Wars RPGs.

 

[howardfanatic]

Thanks to everyone who replied.
I like Mekton a lot- it is easily one of the all time greats. Don't misunderstand. When I was 15 and had nothing else to do but sit around and create mecha for a month, that level of detail was great. Now? Not so good. I like the basic design available in the rules book, but the advanced MKT+ is just too much these days.

Nanotechnology should not be magic. It is a valid and rapidly advancing area of technological study. In any modern sci fi game that seeks to be somewhat hard edged, nanotech is an inexcusable oversight.

Battletech started as a Traveller campaign? And here I thought it started as a way to rip off Gundam mech designs... :twisted:

Star Wars is fantasy in space. I like it, and my players love it. I just use it as an example because it can really stretch a sci fi game. Plus, if you can do Star Wars, you can do Dune, and Dune rocks so freakin' hard it makes my teeth hurt.

I'm really more interested in a sort of "Cyberpunk meets Outland" type setting with some mecha and including parapsychology as a valid science (I think it is valid).

The trouble I have had with Traveller in the past is that you can play an ex-military type who now travels around as a merchant... and that's about all. Firefly, aside, it's also so boring to me that it makes me want to curl up in a fetal position and cry. I know that sort of thing figured prominantly in Foundation (and I love Foundation), but a good game it does not make. Not to me, anyway.

So my next questions are:
If I wanted to design an alien race like the Thing or the Xenomorph, how difficult and how long a task would that be?
Same on how long and how difficult with making the starship Enterprise, an X-Wing Fighter, and a Patlabor/Gundam? What are the factors involved in designing a vehicle, and can you design space ships and planetary craft?

How does Traveller handle FTL communications and travel? Is it the Alcubierre (s/p?) warp bubble, "hyperspace", Asimov-style hyperjumps, or Herbert style space folding? Or something else?

 

[AndrewW]

The trouble I have had with Traveller in the past is that you can play an ex-military type who now travels around as a merchant... and that's about all. Firefly, aside, it's also so boring to me that it makes me want to curl up in a fetal position and cry. I know that sort of thing figured prominantly in Foundation (and I love Foundation), but a good game it does not make. Not to me, anyway.

That is certainly one way to play Traveller, it's never been the only one. Doesn't have to even involve space at all, can stay put on one planet if so desired, plenty of adventure to be had. Travel between planets could involve booking passage on another ship which in itself could be an adventure, maybe some pirates are trying to take over the vessel you have passage on. Perhaps your character is a plant who is there to help those boarding. Or even if you do have your own starship, doesn't have to be a merchant might try your own hand at being a pirate, might get hired by a patron to go explore some derelict warship from a bygone era.

I'm sorry if your own games where so limited but I don't see that as a limitation of Traveller.

So my next questions are:
If I wanted to design an alien race like the Thing or the Xenomorph, how difficult and how long a task would that be?

Depends on how much detail you want to put into the race. If you want the limited bit that's in the Core Rulebook about a few races now that wouldn't take much. If you want to make up your own alien module that would obviously take longer.

Same on how long and how difficult with making the starship Enterprise, an X-Wing Fighter, and a Patlabor/Gundam? What are the factors involved in designing a vehicle, and can you design space ships and planetary craft?

Starship (those equipped with jump drives), system ships (those without jump drives) and small craft (under 100 tons) are all covered. Though we don't yet have a vehicle design system.

How does Traveller handle FTL communications and travel? Is it the Alcubierre (s/p?) warp bubble, "hyperspace", Asimov-style hyperjumps, or Herbert style space folding? Or something else?

Communications between worlds is limited to the speed of the ship carrying it. The default Traveller drive is a jumpdrive which puts the ship effectively in it's own space for 1 week of travel. Alternate drives cover Warp Drive, Teleport Drive and Hyperspace drive. Though the alternate drives aren't covered in detail. The release of Book 4: Psion (due in April) will bring the option of Mind Ships, Time Drives and Dimensional Drives.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Battletech started as a Traveller campaign? And here I thought it started as a way to rip off Gundam mech designs... :twisted:

it was Macross, Dougram and Crusher Joe, not Gundam! :lol:

 

[howardfanatic]

ALL giant robot anime is MS Gundam! lol :twisted:

 

[GypsyComet]

Nope.

While there is a lot of anime that wishes it were MS Gundam (in any sense), almost none of it is. That includes several of the later shows that actually include the word "Gundam" in their name...

 

[rje]

T20 spends an entire paragraph defending its lack of energy weapons, ala blasters and phasers. Classic Traveller's computer tech was so outlandishly outdated it made Murphy's Rules. Megatraveller's starship creation system was the most needlessly complex system of ship creation I have seen since Mekton Z Plus.

All of these problems have gone away with Mongoose Traveller. Even the energy weapons issue is settled -- for example, with the Babylon 5 supplement (don't knock it just because of its name).

If I get Traveller, I will mostly likely use it to play [...]

Asimov's Robots/Foundation settings
Gibson's cyberpunk
Mobile Suit Gundam
Clarke's 2001 series
Frank Herbert's Dune saga
Star Wars
Shadowrun
Lovecraftian aliens, the Thing, Aliens' Xenomorph
parapsychological psychic powers
Battletech
Mekton
Nanotech
Outland
Enterprise, X-Wing Fighter, Patlabor/Gundam
FTL comms, FTL travel

Luckily, most of these are setting-specific, and the core Mongoose Traveller rules are more adaptable than older versions of Traveller. There are several different FTL (and realspace drive) schemes addressed, and a simple attribute system for describing aliens. Weapons and characters are applicable across a wide variety of settings, and there's plenty of room for non-military campaigns, including espionage, law enforcement (repo man?), diplomacy, save-the-galaxy...

Moreover, for more sweeping setting changes, there are sourcebooks. For example, for more gritty sci-fi there is Hammer's Slammers. For more energy weapons, beefier fighters, and FTL comms there is Babylon 5 (don't discount it because of its title: the source material may be just what you're looking for).

 

[howardfanatic]

I meant that MS Gundam ws the daddy of all giant robot animes.
Gundam freakin' rules. At least, TOS and the 0085 (I think that was what it was called) rock.
Also, Armored Troopers VOTOMS kicks a fair amount of assness.

Anyway, thanks for giving me the info on the flexibility of the new Traveller. The extreme limitations of previous editions has always alienated me. It's good to hear that Mongoose addressed some of those issues. I get closer to buying the game every day.
I'm still not getting the Bab5, though. Maybe a Star Trek or Farscape when they put it out or the Judge Dredd. I'm just not into Bab5. Stryzinckzi (I am not sure at all how to spell the name) is one of my all time least favorite writers (I know him from his disastrous runs on Spider-Man and Thor).