Is it just me....

[Azgulor]

Really, what’s the big difference?

Based on the time and effort you expend pointing out your perceived flaws with the Conan game, I have a hard time believing you feel this way. If you truly do, more power to you - but spare us the "here's where Conan is broken" posts.

Azgulor

 

[Azgulor]

Sorry, I had mistaken you for someone saying something ridiculous.

Good thing you are not running the company. The reason is simple. For twice the effort, you are mostly just cannibalizing your own customers.

Well, It would seem I would be running their company just fine, considering they seem to be doing just that.

Wrong. There is some speculation that they might consider it, and given Matt Sprange's comments on ENworld it is clear that they are aware of the cannibalization issues that you don't seem to get.

Just to be clear, since most of your posts tend to drift considerably off-topic, the OP was talking about the potential integration of Runequest with the Conan line, not Runequest itself. I have no problem with Runequest itself. If there are enough fans of the system then a revival seems like a sound business decision. But, the issue here is the possibility of developing two separate systems for the Conan line itself. IMO that would be a bad idea, because it is unlikely to recruit many new customers to the line. If you want to play in the Hyrobian age, you are already here.

Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if anyone read my original post past the first sentence.

Azgulor

 

[Etepete]

Personally, I would really welcome a BRP conan. I think the system reflects the genre far better (BRP is better for heroism, you can prevail against the odds, and every challenge isn't meticously weighed and tested), and I'm personally more comfortable in it. Besides, I never got the hang of making NPC in any kind of reasonable timeframe for d20 . I really like Conan d20, and what Mongoose have done with the license and with the rules though. To my knowledge the best d20 system out there.

Now, it might not be commercially feasible to launch an RQ-Conan. But I'd be very interested in any fan-base attempt to convert Conan to RQ. And that's more of a job than one might think, with add-on rules popping up in most supplements.

(RQ will be BRP or sort of BRP? Or am I missing something?)

(Regarding levels and classes: The big thing with levels is it doesn't only raise your skills and feats, it raises your saves and HP as well, so advancement under BRP and advancement under d20 are to different things. I don't think anybodys arguing for systems without advancement. And most games tend to fall back on some sort of proffesion or archetype or whatnot, but d20 classes are on a deeper, more basic level than that. In most BRP-systems I've come across, you can pretty much keep or drop proffessions at your wim. Granted I've never played RQ...)

 

[Mark Dunder]

I never once posted I thought it was ok to integrate Conan and RuneQuest. Not once. I have no idea, Tarharqa, where you even got that assumption. What I said is they can support both systems. Which is exactly what they are doing. You twisted my words all over the place.
I support d20 as a resolution system, I just don't like it that much as it is currently designed. I don't hate it. There is a vast difference between don't like and hate, you know. I think Levels have merit, I just find the progression too slow and restrictive.
I know lots of people don't want to bother learning a new gaming system. That's fine, I don't see anything wrong with that. I do like learning other gaming systems, I like learning period.
OGL Conan has Feats which I find fascinating, they didn't have those back in the old days. Also, I have no idea where everyone got the assumption that RQ somehow was going to subplant Conan. I think RQ has a very broad base of customers in place that don't play Conan. They would just be increasing their customer base and making more money. I don't see how this would take anything away from Conan. I'm confused as to how many of you may think they would drop production of Conan material.
I think (and I also mean IMO and I'm just generalizing and speculating and not pointing my finger at anyone in particular) you guys are panicking for no reason.

I think RPG designers, coming after D&D/d20, wanted a quick way to generate higher level characters right from the get go. They also wanted to add more skill use. D&D in the early years did add lots of modules, but I think they didn't expand the game system fast enough. Most of their work was just lists of items for their game, like the Monster Manual.
OGL Conan brings lots of new features to their game, but I would like to see skill progression increase as the player desires, not wait for a new level. I would like to see Levels used as a tool to progress Abilities and Feats, to keep in line with the idea that only experience can give you certain "intrinsic" abilities. I think you should have a way of adding Levels at the beginning of play, but penalize the player for doing so, perhaps by aging them. My ideas are for those who like d20, but are frustrated over progression. All RPGs have vertues to add to the mix. I like to mix my games. Somethings work, somethings don't. I chose TSRs Conan more because of it's flexibility to add ideas from other games. By the way, my version of the game bears little resemblance to the original, I've changed about everything in the game. I can't even play the original TSR Conan anymore. I use TSRs Conan as a starting point in my discussions, because some people know that name, and really have no idea what my game is, which I tentativley call Talent RPG.

I have been playing OGL Conan with my son (he's 18 ) and testing some of my ideas out. So I do know how the system works, although I'm a little rusty on some of the finer points. And did I mention I like Feats?

 

[Rikki-Tikki-Tavi]

I have to say I like Conan the way it is now.

I will never buy a duel stat book.

And I won't buy it under another system. In my location it's very hard to find groups that are running something besides D20 based games right now. Heck, the new WW stuff just sits on the shelf.

 

[Thoth Aw C'mon]

I never once posted I thought it was ok to integrate Conan and RuneQuest. Not once. I have no idea, Tarharqa, where you even got that assumption. What I said is they can support both systems. Which is exactly what they are doing. You twisted my words all over the place.
I support d20 as a resolution system, I just don't like it that much as it is currently designed. I don't hate it. There is a vast difference between don't like and hate, you know. I think Levels have merit, I just find the progression too slow and restrictive.
I know lots of people don't want to bother learning a new gaming system. That's fine, I don't see anything wrong with that. I do like learning other gaming systems, I like learning period.
OGL Conan has Feats which I find fascinating, they didn't have those back in the old days. Also, I have no idea where everyone got the assumption that RQ somehow was going to subplant Conan. I think RQ has a very broad base of customers in place that don't play Conan. They would just be increasing their customer base and making more money. I don't see how this would take anything away from Conan. I'm confused as to how many of you may think they would drop production of Conan material.
I think (and I also mean IMO and I'm just generalizing and speculating and not pointing my finger at anyone in particular) you guys are panicking for no reason.

I think RPG designers, coming after D&D/d20, wanted a quick way to generate higher level characters right from the get go. They also wanted to add more skill use. D&D in the early years did add lots of modules, but I think they didn't expand the game system fast enough. Most of their work was just lists of items for their game, like the Monster Manual.
OGL Conan brings lots of new features to their game, but I would like to see skill progression increase as the player desires, not wait for a new level. I would like to see Levels used as a tool to progress Abilities and Feats, to keep in line with the idea that only experience can give you certain "intrinsic" abilities. I think you should have a way of adding Levels at the beginning of play, but penalize the player for doing so, perhaps by aging them. My ideas are for those who like d20, but are frustrated over progression. All RPGs have vertues to add to the mix. I like to mix my games. Somethings work, somethings don't. I chose TSRs Conan more because of it's flexibility to add ideas from other games. By the way, my version of the game bears little resemblance to the original, I've changed about everything in the game. I can't even play the original TSR Conan anymore. I use TSRs Conan as a starting point in my discussions, because some people know that name, and really have no idea what my game is, which I tentativley call Talent RPG.

I have been playing OGL Conan with my son (he's 18 ) and testing some of my ideas out. So I do know how the system works, although I'm a little rusty on some of the finer points. And did I mention I like Feats?

Interesting discussion. I'm also constantly interested in tweaking, changing and mulling over new rules and systems for RPGs. And I am also working on a RPG system of my own (a lot of people are, I know.) Some people are trying to improve the state of the RPG and trying to reach a finer, better, quicker, more intuitive and flexible system of rules.

I like Conan the RPG a lot. And I also have many RPGs with varying systems. And there are aspects to each game that I like, and aspects to each that I do not. Obviously people disagree over practically everything, but I think there are much better systems out there, IMHO.

Personally, I like feats as well: I think they add to the game. I also like the idea of specialized Combat Maneuveres. And I like the idea of fate points. I don't care for levels, or for the class system either. And I like the idea of humanoids in a RPG system. If you're going to have a fantasy system, why limit yourself? If you're going to run a pirate character, why not have him take on Orcs, Goblins, Minotaurs, Ogres, Elves, Dwarves, etc.? If you're going to have a fantasy world to adventure in, then man stuff it full of fantastic fantasy creatures. Now, of course, in the instance of Conan the RPG, the world is based on the works of REH, and so do not have creatures such as those mentioned above in there, and I understand that. And, again, I've had a lot of fun playing Conan the RPG: its an excellent game. Like all RPGs, however, it has things I like which move the state of RPGs forward. And there are aspects of the game which I personally do not care for. Some of these things are correctable, some are limitations of the game concept itself, and thats okay. Similarly, my favorite RPG of all time is the original version of Stormbringer by Chaosium. It was an intuitive and smooth flowing game. But, still, it had aspects to it that I didn't like and felt were limiting: some were a part of the Young Kingdoms themselves as created by Michael Moorcock, some were rules problems which every game has, to one extent or another. Conan and Stormbringer are both based on the specific worlds of their respective authors, and so have their own distinct worlds populated by the peoples and creatures of their respective stories, and thats cool. But these games while having the distinct flavor of these author's worlds are nevertheless limited by it. This isnt a criticism of these games as just a statement of the way it is. I guess for me personally I havent yet found an RPG that matches a fascinating setting with the rules that work well and have minimal problems. Which is why, like others, I'm working on a game system and setting of my own.

RPGs have improved a lot since they first hit the scene. However they have a long way. The state of the game will continue to evolve and, hopefully, improve through the work, thought, debate and arguments of people who love the hobby. But again interesting discussion.

 

[Strom]

Some discussions on the evolution of the RPG include this recent article on the "Delve Experiment" for adventures that could possibly transform the RPG experience to a more miniatures style game with minimal book referencing:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060317a

 

[Mark Dunder]

"Delve Experiment"

I thought that was called "HeroClix."

Conan RPG has a lot of material that will take me quite a while to talk my wife out of the money for. Seriously, I won't be buying much RQ material and I think a lot of us need some time to catch up on the Conan references already produced by Mongoose. If all that Mongoose does is make a bunch of new material for Conan, I'll never catch up. Let Mongoose sell a few more volumes of the Conan references, then they will have all the resources they need to take over the RPG world.

 

[Archer]

Well, I for one, would love to see dual stat sourcebooks for the world of Conan. It can be done, and has been done in the past (Legend of the Five Rings was both original system and d20 for a while).