Is Humanity Fated to Extinction? How Would You Save SICON?

Ragnarok

Mongoose
Is the situation hopeless for humanity? I think not. Although the Roughnecks series ended on a definitely "down" note, I remember the statement from the first installment - "Who knew that we were headed into our first interstellar war?" Someone's looking back from somewhere to make this statement, and in a war of extinction that means to me that humanity finally figured out the Ultimate Weapon.

OK, OK ... my guess for that Ultimate Weapon is an agent with multiple means of delivery that attacks the Arachnids at one of their most vulnerable points, which are several, for example:

Possibility A: Roughnecks, Tesca - "We're witnessing millions of years of evolution compressed into a few minutes." "Why terraform a world when you can mutate yourselves to fit that world?" Use of a drug agent that would screw up this ability to mutate by forcing a mutation that kills the creature. This was the scenario for a 40K novel about the 2nd Company of the Ultramarines fighting a Tyranid invasion on some planet (all propriety rights of all terms to all owners acknowledged!).

Possibility B: Use of a drug agent to fatally impede the creation of new generations (like DDT making bird shells too brittle and killing the birds before they hatched).

Possibility C: Use of a drug agent to impede the creation of higher level bugs from the common eggs (no brains. overseers or queens). This is the Curse of the Trollkin scenario from Runequest I & II.

Possibility D: Use of a drug agent to increase the metabolism of the bugs, thereby reducing their lifespan to days or shorter.

Possibility E: Use of a drug agent to break the linkage of the newly born to the communal mind, thereby creating either loose cannons in the system or creatures with at least enough independent thought to tend towards self-preservation (thereby creating a civil war).

Possibility F: Use of a drug agent to interfere with the digestive system, thereby starving the buggers to death.

Possibility G: The end product of Toxin B-3 (ref Roughnecks Zephr & Roughnecks Homefront), which is letal, cheap, and plentiful (Yes, available in one's corner drugstore, Commander!).

Possibility H: SICON discovers a planet that has an atmosphere that indeed kills off bugs (Skinnie response to the question of bugs on Roughnecks - Tophet: they could not adjust to our atmosphere and died). This is a War of the Worlds conclusion.

Possibility I: Day of the Triffids conclusion: Salt water melts the beasties.

Possibility J: The mule conclusion: A drug agent introduced makes all future generations sterile.

Possibility K: The Boric Acid Conclusion. Bugs, like roaches, cannot belch to release gas. Therefore, this agent creates gas bubbles which, in turn, causes internal explosions, other gastric distress, and death. It's kinda like the "Little Bang" theory!

Of course, more than one of these Bug extermination weapons will probably have to be developed, since the Arachnids counter our technology with evolutionary countermeasures. Any other cures for the Bug disease? :wink:
 
Ignore possibility I, that never worked in anything that counted....

Personally I always felt the ultimate weapon was a Star Killer, wipe out the entire system the bugs have infected and force them to come to the table..... Maybe a tad drastic but then thats often been the way with us humans.
 
In my imagination, I always figured the bug war would go on forever, each side ascending and decending based on the winds of fate.

But for it to end, something would have to get the two sides to stop fighting each other. That could include:

The Kerrigan Option - The bugs assimilate a pychic human, and the resultant hybrid retains its humanity (see: Barcalow in the Roughnecks cartoon) while retaining authority over the bug hive mind. Through integration with human and bug mind, diplomacy becomes possible, and the two species diplomatically maintain an antagonistic but cautiously neutral approach to each other.

The Chaos Option - Something horrible beyond a scale yet seen in the ST universe appears that is a bigger threat to SICON and the Arachnid empire than one another. Best I can imagine is Chaos from Warhammer 40k, or perhaps a more voracious alien organism, forcing the two species to fight the third (or Forth?) to the point that they forget about one another.

The Bugs Are Doing Their Part! - Like the assimilation option, but somehow through psychic communication, bugs and humans reach a truce and get over it already, eventually resulting in an end to fighting. Humans provide the bugs with precious sugar and arid worthless planets, bugs provide humans with cheap manual labor and a huge boost to the SICON armed forces. Everyone wins!


Sure, they're unlikely options, but hey, we're talking about robotic exo-suits versus giant bugs here, right?
 
You forget one thing:
Ragnarok said:
"We're witnessing millions of years of evolution compressed into a few minutes."
Bugs are better in that. DO you have an idea of HOW DAMN HARD terran cockroaches are?
They quickly adapt resistances to new poisons, learn effective ways to avoid contact (like walking on their claws - they taste with their legs so they recognize contact poisons) or just stop breathing for a couple of hours.

Bugs are even harder. After all they lived on PLUTO!
During the Pluto Campaign there were tons of nerve gas used - now the bugs are immun to all of them.
And for the Virus Idea - I wouldn't try to compete the Bugs in Genetic Engineering, you won't win that battle.

And never forget - what you give to the bugs can probably fall back on you.
You don't want to have Transport Bugs bombing your colony worlds with Virus Bombs.


I think there will grow some understanding as the Bugs try to understand how humans tick - they can already get into their brains and make them do things - and Humanity is trying to do the same.
Even if this is just used to kill each other so far, maybe a kind of 'hey, in a way they are like us' feeling will one day arise.
But probably an alliance will only be formed if there is no other way to go.
 
Actually, considering that the bugs are underground, and can survive a lot of radiation, nuking them from orbit isn't exactly a sure thing. :P
 
So crack the planet open w/Nova bombs, just like in the book.

Imo best (and most probable) is the Terran Ascendancy solution, as massive and more or less simultaneous assasination of Brain/Queen caste as possible to cripple Arachnids as a race. They wouldn't get wiped out completely in such an action, but as a race would be crippled enough not to pose a deadly threat to mankind anymore.

As for cooperation - don't believe it'd be possible at all. Bugs simply won't grasp this kind of idea, even after capturing and symbioting human psykers.
 
Turtle said:
Actually, considering that the bugs are underground, and can survive a lot of radiation, nuking them from orbit isn't exactly a sure thing. :P

Turn the Star supernova and the planet no longer exists..... (In fact the entire solar system ceases to exisit) It maybe drastic but it will show the bugs we mean business.
 
Ragnarok said:
Someone's looking back from somewhere to make this statement, and in a war of extinction that means to me that humanity finally figured out the Ultimate Weapon.

Or somebody living out time where humans are in middle of multiple interstellar wars with extinction facing in future...

You seem to have lots of drug based solutions...How you plan they would put that drug into arachnid empire through? If even one planet escapes then who cares. Bugs just recover their numbers in unaltered form without problem...

As for atmosphere thing...You plan to gas the planets with that atmosphere? So bugs die. Soon they develop themselves immune to that atmosphere...No solution.
 
Makoto said:
So crack the planet open w/Nova bombs, just like in the book.

You end up cracking every planet open then...Ummmm...Where are HUMANS supposed to live then...

Imo best (and most probable) is the Terran Ascendancy solution, as massive and more or less simultaneous assasination of Brain/Queen caste as possible to cripple Arachnids as a race.

And how would you suggest that is done fast enough? You need to prevent possibility of breeding new brains/queens or you have only got short respite and then you are facing them AGAIN...
 
And how would you suggest that is done fast enough? You need to prevent possibility of breeding new brains/queens or you have only got short respite and then you are facing them AGAIN...

Easy, introduce Christianity to the bugs. :D
 
You end up cracking every planet open then...Ummmm...Where are HUMANS supposed to live then...
most of the bug planets seem to be less than perfect for human life, and there are plenty other planets in the universe,enough not to try and reclaim ones from the most deadly life-form in the known space. oh, there may be exeptions, like already-established colonies, or very resources-rich planet, but in most cases the casualtiens and time invested in recalimataion would be too high to justify the operation.
 
Poko said:
most of the bug planets seem to be less than perfect for human life,

And what if they seed out Earth then...As far as I know Earth is still pretty good for human life...So you would conceivably want method to get them clear of Earth without cracking whole planet...

Bugs can live in pretty much any planet. If SICON starts to crack open planets then logical answer would be for bugs to seed out pretty much every place, including human planets. Crack open your own planets if you will!

and there are plenty other planets in the universe

What makes you think bugs wouldn't seed those as well?-)

Bugs create bugs pretty fast. They can expand faster than we can so while humans colonise one planet bugs can colonise that planet and couple more for good measure.

Cracking planets starts to get...Costly...Solution.

To win this humans need way to clear planet from bugs for good and KEEP it clear. And then expand.

If only way to do that is blowing the planet bugs have effectively won. Small initial investement in seeding the planet, they expand, attack, slaughter humans, force humans to blow up yet another planet. Repeat elsewhere.
 
tneva82 said:
You end up cracking every planet open then...Ummmm...Where are HUMANS supposed to live then...
Hmm... Lagrange habitats come to mind, in SST universe they're pretty common anyway.

tneva82 said:
And how would you suggest that is done fast enough? You need to prevent possibility of breeding new brains/queens or you have only got short respite and then you are facing them AGAIN...
I admit I'll weasell off this one - am not a high-ranked SICON agent, nor a Sky Marshall, so it's not my problem. I just point the gun and fire ;)
 
Bugs can live in pretty much any planet. If SICON starts to crack open planets then logical answer would be for bugs to seed out pretty much every place, including human planets. Crack open your own planets if you will!
they can't spread that fast(the stupid transport bugsa re pretty slow, and if they happen to not find any easily absorbed hydrogen on their way they are...fuc.d.) plus, let's not forget that there are other forces at play in the universe-i'm sure the Forth ,or any other race that MGP concieves, won;t be too happy about 'roach problem in their neibourhood.
And what if they seed out Earth then...As far as I know Earth is still pretty good for human life...So you would conceivably want method to get them clear of Earth without cracking whole planet...
i did mention some exceptison, right? well,suprise, Earth is one such exception :P . but trying to tackle bugs from their hub planets is as lost cause, much better to blow them into tiny pieces of space dust. if coordinated well enough, the entire core of the bug empire will be gone, with only the new colonies to deal with,and they require time to grow(not even bugs can grow THAT fast,especially on a biomass-deprived planet)
 
Transport bugs are noted as being possibly Faster than human vessels...

The Book solution works for one reason- the bugs are a technological using race, and some communication is possible, as it escalated to a war, there were at first 'incidents'

this matters because it means the bugs recognize the power of the nova bomb and therefore can be 'convinced' to surrender, they understand politics to some degree, as the last scenes of the novel are the invasion of Klendathu, which cannot be nova bombed because the bugs brought in their captured POWs to the planet. I envision that after this the bugs surrender, foregoing the territorial claims they made... its noted that the war is over real estate in the galaxy...

unlike the other fluffs its not a war to extinction its much more traditional than that...

I think eventually the bugs will come to understand human minds quite well, and assuming we use a nova bomb or two, or simply produce better tactics for destroying bugs, they may very well seek a peace, especially if the Forth and Skinnies become co-belligerents

let us not forget Xander from the CGI, human bug relations man.
 
Poko said:
they can't spread that fast(the stupid transport bugsa re pretty slow, and if they happen to not find any easily absorbed hydrogen on their way they are...fuc.d.) plus, let's not forget that there are other forces at play in the universe-i'm sure the Forth ,or any other race that MGP concieves, won;t be too happy about 'roach problem in their neibourhood.

I disagree, bugs are damn quick.

SICON Military Cherenkov drives move at .146 ly/hr That's hard 'fact' taken from the RPG core book. Alpha centauri being a 30 hour trip at 4.4 light years away.

Assume that Transport bugs are 1/2 as fast and they still move at .07 light years an hour or 1 light year every 14 hours. UCF space is only a 'sphere' with a radius of 10 light years. Both sides of the war can be in place pretty darn quickly.

The arachnid infested space area is considerably larger then human space. The Arachnid empire book talks about KILO PARCECS. Though I suspect that the unit of measure and the location of the planets are more a result of the author pulling numbers out of nowhere.

Point is when the bugs got the secret of Hyperspace travel from the skinnies re the skinny army book fluff, they expanded in all directions limited mainly by finding water on planets or hydrogen gas giants. Human space represents a very small part of their expansion.

IMHO the best way to 'beat' the arachnids if join forces with other sentient races locked in similar struggles. There are 3 intelligent races within fighting distance of each other, Bugs, Skinnies, and Humans. Its a safe bet that there are other races out there as well. If we can just stop shooting at them long enough to join together we may have a chance, but divided we will all fall to the bugs.

The 2nd solution for humanities survival, and remember 'its a battle for the species' is to build and launch an ark and try to escape the reach of the bugs and start anew somewhere else. That way if Earth falls and humanity lost, there will be a glimmer of home for the survival of the species.
 
captainsmirk said:
You flunked Games and Theory then :D
Actually I passed it well enough to avoid draft into the blackcoats ;p

More seriously though:
maybe if several main colonies in the sector would get burned at the same time resulting feedback would be enough to cripple smaller colonies in local (ie. -teen L.Y. radius) area. Then we'd just chew up the bugs one piece (sector) at a time.
 
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