Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
JTAS 7 does feature the Astrogon, a rebuilt lab ship with robotic brain
Intelligent ships for the players
- Thread starter Regnarts
- Start date
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
The patron encounter begins at p.81, and the ship itself on p.86.
The ship, it’s pinnace and air/raft all have robotic brains.
The ship, it’s pinnace and air/raft all have robotic brains.
eclecticidol
Mongoose
The Mindjammer Traveller conversion has rules allowing players to play intelligent ships (or other types of powerful AIs, such as the avatar of an AI that runs a planet). Lots of interesting ideas but quite difficult to backport to the Traveller universe.
I admit I have struggled often with understanding the Computer rules in Traveller over the years. My players tend to avoid them, too.
Regarding the Astrogon, which I am introducing into my campaign, there is a note that "As a non-sentient being, its independent Astrogation skill checks suffer DM-4...". I presume the rule for this DM is in the Robots book (which I don't have).
- Are there other DMs to skill checks for non-sentient beings/Ship's Brains, beyond self-repair?
- The Ship's Brain is listed as INT 12 and having Astrogation 2, so its modifiers to make an Astrogation check are +2 INT, +2 skill, -4 non-sentient = 0, correct?
- It could make Gunnery checks at +2 for skills, but no modifier for DEX?
Regarding the Astrogon, which I am introducing into my campaign, there is a note that "As a non-sentient being, its independent Astrogation skill checks suffer DM-4...". I presume the rule for this DM is in the Robots book (which I don't have).
- Are there other DMs to skill checks for non-sentient beings/Ship's Brains, beyond self-repair?
- The Ship's Brain is listed as INT 12 and having Astrogation 2, so its modifiers to make an Astrogation check are +2 INT, +2 skill, -4 non-sentient = 0, correct?
- It could make Gunnery checks at +2 for skills, but no modifier for DEX?
Yes, the Astrogation rule is in the Robot handbook.
If the ship has a Haptic system the Ship Brain can get a Dex bonus as if the TL were a stat for certain skills. It specifically does not mention Gunnery, but your GM experience may vary,
For an additional Cr2000 per ton the interface can
include full haptics, allowing the robot brain to ‘feel’ the
operation of the ship, providing an effective DEX equal
to the brain’s TL for any Pilot checks or operation of any
manipulator-like ship’s systems such as grappling arms
or cargo cranes.
While not completely sentient, the ship brain can fake it pretty well and use regular Expert Software. I don't remember there being any other skill DMs
IMO, I think the ship's brain rules are a bit overpowered.
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To Tha Moon!
Cosmic Mongoose
Yeah, why not. It's just another NPC with functions/actions. Right now we have ChatBots and stuff.
The higher the Tech Level, the easier this would be.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
But that is exactly why I wouldn't want my ship fitted with one. What do you do when your ship one day says to you: "I quit." And leaves port without you? As noted above, the ship then becomes the robot's "body".
A better idea would be to have a robot brain with its own dedicated body (anthropomorphic or otherwise) that can interface with and run the ship's computer like a coprocessor to its brain as the primary core, but that can be easily decoupled from it. (Then it can even come with you on the away mission and still control things via uplink).
Grognardia
Emperor Mongoose
I've written several short stories featuring Cathbad, an Omega-class Ship's Brain. So far, he has been working (mostly) fine 
Here he is getting activated for the first time: https://soren-boye-petersen.itch.io/seven-gs-one-bard-zero-regrets
Here he is getting activated for the first time: https://soren-boye-petersen.itch.io/seven-gs-one-bard-zero-regrets
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Post Singularity intelligent ships will be all over the setting, depending on how it plays out of course
Intelligent ships are also a thing in TNE and beyond.
I personally quite like the Andromeda Ascendant ship intelligence, mobile avatar, the whole package.
In my Culture setting intelligent machines, ships, vehicles are common place.
Intelligent ships are also a thing in TNE and beyond.
I personally quite like the Andromeda Ascendant ship intelligence, mobile avatar, the whole package.
In my Culture setting intelligent machines, ships, vehicles are common place.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
I've thought that making ships with AI (but not self aware or self motivated) could be interesting as it would allow the GM to have a way to attract attention to needed things.
The AI would be rules based and over time it would acquire new rules based on orders given and their responses to what the AI did as a result. It wouldn't always be what the PCs expect.
For example the AI "notices" that the crew always (or mostly) scans a port to see what ships are present (or queries the port) and does so without being asked and immediately responds when they begin to do so and eventually starts automatically presenting the data. If they try to narrow down what data they want to "interesting" ships it won't know what they mean by "interesting" unless prior actions provide a hint. It might just start listing ships never seen before or maybe for models of ships that haven't been seen and miss what the players want. The ship might for example be asked "why didn't you tell us 9 fingered Pete's ship was here" and learn that ship is to be considered interesting.
Over time its behaviour would be fine tuned by the crews instructions and responses to the results. Not of course the way they might want it to be.
Of course an old ship that they buy/acquire might have been "trained" to do things they don't like and will need to work to change. (GM discretion of course). Alternately it may have had a factory reset and be untrained with limited independent action programmed in. Smarter owners might backup the rule sets periodically to be able to restore after a reset or undesired behaviour being developed.
The AI would be rules based and over time it would acquire new rules based on orders given and their responses to what the AI did as a result. It wouldn't always be what the PCs expect.
For example the AI "notices" that the crew always (or mostly) scans a port to see what ships are present (or queries the port) and does so without being asked and immediately responds when they begin to do so and eventually starts automatically presenting the data. If they try to narrow down what data they want to "interesting" ships it won't know what they mean by "interesting" unless prior actions provide a hint. It might just start listing ships never seen before or maybe for models of ships that haven't been seen and miss what the players want. The ship might for example be asked "why didn't you tell us 9 fingered Pete's ship was here" and learn that ship is to be considered interesting.
Over time its behaviour would be fine tuned by the crews instructions and responses to the results. Not of course the way they might want it to be.
Of course an old ship that they buy/acquire might have been "trained" to do things they don't like and will need to work to change. (GM discretion of course). Alternately it may have had a factory reset and be untrained with limited independent action programmed in. Smarter owners might backup the rule sets periodically to be able to restore after a reset or undesired behaviour being developed.
To Tha Moon!
Cosmic Mongoose
If your ship's brain acts like that, your Referee is being... mean.
So, you want R2-D2? There's an astromech droid in either Central Supply Catalog or the Robot Handbook. It might be something you can use like that. Maybe even modify it like Anakin did to R2.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
I am thinking realistically in-game, not out of game in terms of players & referees.
A fully sentient/conscious robot brain is a bona fide entity. Such a brain is a regular NPC. If it is hard-wired into the ship augmenting the computer system, it has every right to consider that ship as its "body".
So the question arises: if your fully sentient robot brain NPC is hard-wired into property that you or another owns, is it your property also? Is it bound to obey you (and hence the slave of its owners/masters)? If not then it is free to make life decisions for itself just like any PC/NPC.
I would rather have it do that and be doing its job from a robot body that can interface with the ShipComp (or that can be transfered between the robot chassis and a ShipComp interface receptacle). Its body then is its own, and the ship is mine; it is a crewmember like all of the rest of the crew.
There is a difference between sophisticated AI, and a Sentient/Conscious Artificial Brain.
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Anstett
Emperor Mongoose
I have not looked over Singularity but I know there are lots of AI Brain details there.
I do agree that the line from "very smart computer" to "independent sophont" is not fully delineated and not sure it can be.
There is no good argument for "a fully sentient/consious robot brain" ie Sophont can be owned if Slavery is not an accepted part of the culture.
I do agree that the line from "very smart computer" to "independent sophont" is not fully delineated and not sure it can be.
There is no good argument for "a fully sentient/consious robot brain" ie Sophont can be owned if Slavery is not an accepted part of the culture.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Can we build them under the rules? Yes, of course, and have since the 80s.
Do they fit in the OTU? No, it's about people not robots.
But, of course, if you want it, do whatever you want.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
In my highschool group's sci-fi setting, we usually used GURPS but several systems were used in setting, there were several full artificial intelligences that ran various ships. They were illegal in the setting, so we always treated them carefully, but while they were capable of creative thought and problem solving, none were truly independent beings. Ability wise, in Traveller terms, they were TL17 computer brains with few limits on learning and acting on their own. But they still had programming that made them happy to be the ship and function as an adjunct to the players. Most had avatars of some sort and got used as PC occasionally. Like mine, Robert, could "possess" my armor and flew my grav bike.
So I think it's perfectly reasonable to have super intelligent computers that are still just computers and even function as player characters.
Of course, I also had one of my sons play a TL 13 Zhodani combat robot for a while, because he wanted to play a robot. He didn't want to be particularly creative with the character so it worked pretty well for him, and if he tried something that really would have beyond his skills and programming, we either figured out a reason why he could or he had to go back and try something else. So even playing a "dumb" robot can be fun and reasonable.
Once the brain is fully outside it's programming though, then it does become a sophont and should probably be treated as any other organic sophont. I think that is more a programming intent rather than the hardware underneath it
So I think it's perfectly reasonable to have super intelligent computers that are still just computers and even function as player characters.
Of course, I also had one of my sons play a TL 13 Zhodani combat robot for a while, because he wanted to play a robot. He didn't want to be particularly creative with the character so it worked pretty well for him, and if he tried something that really would have beyond his skills and programming, we either figured out a reason why he could or he had to go back and try something else. So even playing a "dumb" robot can be fun and reasonable.
Once the brain is fully outside it's programming though, then it does become a sophont and should probably be treated as any other organic sophont. I think that is more a programming intent rather than the hardware underneath it
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
Humans are good at accepting bad arguments as to why some people don't deserve the same rights as others. History wouldn't have so many slave owning cultures otherwise or so many with different classes of citizens.
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Anstett
Emperor Mongoose
Sad but true
Culture is a great example of how things might be around TL30. It doesn't have that much relevance to the usual Traveller campaign.
I would point out that you really do NOT need a self aware ship, or even a lesser bot brain. An intelligent one, using a normal ship's computer, running the software that lets it use skills and automate things is more than sufficient to get a pseudo character sidekick. It can even have a drone body or two to interact with the crew and handle those pesky tasks that need hands and legs.
I would point out that you really do NOT need a self aware ship, or even a lesser bot brain. An intelligent one, using a normal ship's computer, running the software that lets it use skills and automate things is more than sufficient to get a pseudo character sidekick. It can even have a drone body or two to interact with the crew and handle those pesky tasks that need hands and legs.
Not a AI it’s a human brain controlling the ship.
The Culture is not actually that much higher tech than the Imperium. TL 17 or TL18 would do it. The TLs in the mid to high 20s are like "re-shape reality" and "create pocket universes". The biggest difference is obviously the ubiquity of General AI and better fabricators.
There is already a Culture like setting using the Traveller rules, Mindjammer. (It also has a version using FATE).
There is already a Culture like setting using the Traveller rules, Mindjammer. (It also has a version using FATE).
