Initiative

[librarycharlie]

While the rulebook for Atlantean Edition (Edit: I thought this was 2ed) specifically says NOT to add dex mod twice, in the official rules FAQ for Atlantean Edition, visible at

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/conanfaq.pdf

On page 2:

"Pg 161; at top of page ‘saving throw modifier’ is defined as ‘Base save bonus + ability modifier’, at bottom of page Initiative check includes ‘Reflex save modifier’ and ‘Dexterity modifier’ Is Dexterity meant to be included in initiative twice?

Yes."

We run it this way and it benefits high dex characters a lot. Given that these are generally not the high strength characters, it actually helps to balance things.

Our high strength Barbarian gets +6 to his parry, attack, and damage.

A thief with a 22 dex gets +6 to dodge and hit with finesse weapons, essentially the same as the first two bonuses of the barbarian. The extra initiative bonus helps compensate for a lack of extra damage.

My 2 cents.

 

[azoth999]

While the rulebook (2ed) specifically says NOT to add dex mod twice, in the official rules FAQ for 2nd Ed, visible at

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/conanfaq.pdf

On page 2:

"Pg 161; at top of page ‘saving throw modifier’ is defined as ‘Base save bonus + ability modifier’, at bottom of page Initiative check includes ‘Reflex save modifier’ and ‘Dexterity modifier’ Is Dexterity meant to be included in initiative twice?

Yes."

I looked at that PDF. Note 2 things: 1) The layout for the FAQ is in the old 1st ed. style; 2) the copyright on the FAQ is dated 2004. I believe that FAQ was intended for the 1st ed. rules. There used to be a link to that FAQ from the downloads section of the site. Note that post 2nd Ed. rules, that link is gone, instead replaced by an errata to the 60 first-run copies that had some errors. It is my belief that the new rules supercede that old FAQ. Obviously, that interpretation still lends itself well for a house rule though.

 

[librarycharlie]

Sorry, I suppose I got my editions mixed up. I was referring to that as the FAQ for the Atlantean Edition, which I thought was the second edition. It's the 2003 book I started with, but I figured there was something before it.

And I'm pretty sure Atl. Ed. was what the thread started with, though the OP wasn't entirely clear, it was just around the release time for the newer edition.

In any case, it is a workable house rule. I'm not sure about anybody else, but if I was a player, even with this house ruled, I'd prefer +6 damage to +6 initiative.

 

[Trodax]

From the 2nd Ed. text, verbatim:

"At the start of the battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is, effectively, a Reflex save, so roll 1d20 and add the character's Reflex save bonus (his base Reflex save bonus from classes, plus Dexterity modifier, plus any other factors like feats that affect his Reflex save)."

Yes, this is indeed a change they made to the 2nd edition; an Initiative check is now a straight up Reflex save roll. I'm very much in favour of this; it removes all question marks about whether Dex should be added twice or if the Lighting Reflexes feat applies to Initiative or not (basically the questions that gave rise to this thread in the first place!).

Sorry, I suppose I got my editions mixed up. I was referring to that as the FAQ for the Atlantean Edition, which I thought was the second edition. It's the 2003 book I started with, but I figured there was something before it.

Basically you have:
2003 - First edition
2004 - Atlantean edition (a reprint of the first edition but with a lot of typos and stuff cleared out)
2007 - Second edition

And since this thread was started over a year ago, it was obviously not about the second edition at the time. :wink:

 

[azoth999]

Sorry, I suppose I got my editions mixed up. I was referring to that as the FAQ for the Atlantean Edition, which I thought was the second edition. It's the 2003 book I started with, but I figured there was something before it.

No worries, as did I to an extent: it was Atlantean Ed.; you are correct. I see that you've edited that into the orig. post for future clarity.

In any case, it is a workable house rule. I'm not sure about anybody else, but if I was a player, even with this house ruled, I'd prefer +6 damage to +6 initiative.

Well, due to the fact that that's there, it makes a good argument for being able to use it that way. FYI, I'm not trying to play "rule Nazi." I am just personally trying to get down to the bottom of what is actually intended by the publishers. I hope to run the 2nd Ed. in the manner originally intended before I elect to go in and change anything with rules variations, house rules and such.

So, for purposes of my understanding, if they'd intended to include Dex mod in twice, as per that Atlantean Ed. FAQ, then I'd have expected them to edit that into the wording in the 2nd Ed. Currently, my understanding is that is not the case.

 

[azoth999]

Yes, this is indeed a change they made to the 2nd edition; an Initiative check is now a straight up Reflex save roll. I'm very much in favour of this; it removes all question marks about whether Dex should be added twice or if the Lighting Reflexes feat applies to Initiative or not (basically the questions that gave rise to this thread in the first place!).

Sweet. That's clears up what I was looking for. Thanks.