Initiative
- Thread starter the flash
- Start date
Sutek
Mongoose
Of course, because it increases the REF save which you are also using for INIT. In reality, it isn't supposed to do that; it's only supposed to grant a boost to saving throws and not initiative. I'm not trying to bash you hee Tro, but you're using a Feat that specifically states that it improves a character's ability to "leap aside from danger at a moment's notice" and applying that bonus to thier initial combat reaction as well.
But anyway...I hope everyone's gotten the answer they were looking for.
But anyway...I hope everyone's gotten the answer they were looking for.
No worries, mate; I know I'm doing it wrong. 
My reasoning is that since regular Reflex saves are so uncommon in Conan, it makes sense to let things that affect it also affect the thing that Reflex save is really used for: initiative. I mean, while the Lightning Reflexes feat is a decent enough feat in D&D because it helps you dodge fireballs, it will not see much use in most Conan games. Even if you play that it does affect initiative, taking Improved Initiative is probably a better deal.
Anyways, this is certainly a very minor detail all-in-all.
My reasoning is that since regular Reflex saves are so uncommon in Conan, it makes sense to let things that affect it also affect the thing that Reflex save is really used for: initiative. I mean, while the Lightning Reflexes feat is a decent enough feat in D&D because it helps you dodge fireballs, it will not see much use in most Conan games. Even if you play that it does affect initiative, taking Improved Initiative is probably a better deal.
Anyways, this is certainly a very minor detail all-in-all.
Because this thread started with a simple question and ended up quite muddled, I'll try to sum it up.
The Official Version
Initiative = Base Ref Save (from your class) + Dex modifier + Misc modifier
The Simplified Version (which I prefer)
Initiative = Your entire Reflex save (which includes Dex and anything that affects the Reflex save) + Misc modifier
Oh and, The Flash; welcome to the boards.
The Official Version
Initiative = Base Ref Save (from your class) + Dex modifier + Misc modifier
The Simplified Version (which I prefer)
Initiative = Your entire Reflex save (which includes Dex and anything that affects the Reflex save) + Misc modifier
Oh and, The Flash; welcome to the boards.
Agreed, it is a house rule but a good one.Trodax said:No worries, mate; I know I'm doing it wrong.
My reasoning is that since regular Reflex saves are so uncommon in Conan, it makes sense to let things that affect it also affect the thing that Reflex save is really used for: initiative. I mean, while the Lightning Reflexes feat is a decent enough feat in D&D because it helps you dodge fireballs, it will not see much use in most Conan games. Even if you play that it does affect initiative, taking Improved Initiative is probably a better deal.
Anyways, this is certainly a very minor detail all-in-all.
Sutek
Mongoose
I differentiate because I feel the two need to be separate so that REF saves are exclusive from Combat rediness. I think that's precisely why it's made clearer in the Atlantean edition that the two should be very separate. You have a feat for boosting REF save (Lightning Reflexes) and one for boosting initiative (Improved Initiative), but these must remain separate.
I can see you house ruling it to draw from the REF save value alone, but it's a disservice to the feats as written to do it, IMO.
By the RAW, they shoudl be calculated separately.
I can see you house ruling it to draw from the REF save value alone, but it's a disservice to the feats as written to do it, IMO.
By the RAW, they shoudl be calculated separately.
Sutek said:
If base reflex save is one of the main modifiers to your initiative, i don't see why feats that improve your ref save shouldn't improve it. It is a modifier to your springiness to sudden threats, some times you wont even be aware of the things that call for a ref save check, so why not use it for foes you are aware of?
Sutek
Mongoose
You can if you want to, but it's not what the rules say to do. That's why it makes it very clear that you don'd use your total REF save value and use your REF save bonus from your class, pointing out that you don't add in your DEX twice, which you'd be doing if you used your total REF save.
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slaughterj
Mongoose
Vincent Darlage has stated he adds Lightning Reflexes in as well, so I suspect that is why it is in the published texts.
Note, Trodax, that if you use the final reflex save as the initiative figure, that all Shemites will be at -1 due to their racial modifier to saves, so that wouldn't necessarily be good to use directly either (though it works in most cases), and there may be other instances such as this (alcohol/drugs/spells affecting the save and not Dex?)...
Note, Trodax, that if you use the final reflex save as the initiative figure, that all Shemites will be at -1 due to their racial modifier to saves, so that wouldn't necessarily be good to use directly either (though it works in most cases), and there may be other instances such as this (alcohol/drugs/spells affecting the save and not Dex?)...
From the 2nd Ed. text, verbatim:
"At the start of the battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is, effectively, a Reflex save, so roll 1d20 and add the character's Reflex save bonus (his base Reflex save bonus from classes, plus Dexterity modifier, plus any other factors like feats that affect his Reflex save)."
"At the start of the battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is, effectively, a Reflex save, so roll 1d20 and add the character's Reflex save bonus (his base Reflex save bonus from classes, plus Dexterity modifier, plus any other factors like feats that affect his Reflex save)."
