Jujitsudave
Mongoose
When removing an impaled weapon from a foe, you have to make a brawn check and expend a CA to do it. Does the "yank" happen immediately after you land the attack or when your next initiative turn comes around?
Impale Question
- Thread starter Jujitsudave
- Start date
Jujitsudave
Mongoose
Ok. Thanks.
Jujitsudave
Mongoose
We can put it to a vote amongst the group to make it a house rule, but keep in mind that the enemies can do the same.
Redcrow said:
Well, it is brilliant for arrows.
Also, if you're fighting with a spear, shield and short sword (The greek/early roman way). You fight with the spear until you've impaled your opponent, then you yank it free, unless doing so puts you at a risk from his friends. If so, you drop the spear and draw your sword. When you've finished off your opponent you can take your spear back up.
Fighting with a spear protruding from your abdomen is pretty disadvantegous.
- Dan
Dan True said:
Its not bad if you have some type of off-hand weapon as backup until the following Initiative Turn, but my thought was in say a fencing master wielding a single weapon like a rapier. Using Impale, which seems like it would be a common maneuver for a fencing master, would actually leave them somewhat at the mercy of their opponent if the initial stab doesn't kill them because now they have no weapon to parry with until the next initiative turn which means they would get an automatic failure against the opponents attack.
The Impale maneuver is also worded really oddly. IMO it would make more sense if it was worded as "next Combat Action" instead of "costs a Combat Action". That wording is what tripped me up and lead me to believe it was meant to be used immediately sort of like the Riposte maneuver.
Its still an ok Maneuver, but I consider it a lot more situation dependant than most of the other Maneuvers.
I've houseruled this (sorry Loz) to allow for one immediate with drawl attempt after impaling at the cost of 1 CA. It makes spears usable and deadlier, which I prefer.
The thing is- it makes the impale maneuver even more dangerous. The rapid burning of 2 CA on one attack means that if your target does not go down (good armor and a low withdrawal damage roll), you are at a disadvantage and may endup open to attack by the end of the Strike rank sequence. Worse- if it doesn't come out, you are now down 3 CA trying to remove the sticker, and in-game you can just feel the momentum and confidence draining away as the PC struggles to remove the weapon and the battle begins to close on him. I like the way the feeling of advantage can turn so drastically into a feeling of disadvantage- but maybe I'm a twisted GM.
But this brings up another question, perhaps that deserves its own thread (yes, that is a potential hijack alert). For those that have played as PC, and for GM's which type of weapon seems most effective? Weapons with the "Stun" CM or Impaling ones. And what CM's do folks find themselves using most often(outside of the crit only options- I'm sure maximize damage and ignore armor are chosen regularly in those instances)?
The thing is- it makes the impale maneuver even more dangerous. The rapid burning of 2 CA on one attack means that if your target does not go down (good armor and a low withdrawal damage roll), you are at a disadvantage and may endup open to attack by the end of the Strike rank sequence. Worse- if it doesn't come out, you are now down 3 CA trying to remove the sticker, and in-game you can just feel the momentum and confidence draining away as the PC struggles to remove the weapon and the battle begins to close on him. I like the way the feeling of advantage can turn so drastically into a feeling of disadvantage- but maybe I'm a twisted GM.
But this brings up another question, perhaps that deserves its own thread (yes, that is a potential hijack alert). For those that have played as PC, and for GM's which type of weapon seems most effective? Weapons with the "Stun" CM or Impaling ones. And what CM's do folks find themselves using most often(outside of the crit only options- I'm sure maximize damage and ignore armor are chosen regularly in those instances)?
Loz
Mongoose
I think I misintepreted the OP (comes from replying late at night after a long day shifting piles of firewood). The reply I gave would apply to someone who's had something stuck in them (say an arrow), rather that the person who does the sticking-in immediately pulling out the weapon so they can stick it in again.
If you're doing the impaling, you can make an immediate attempt to pull it out at the cost of 1 CA (I would rule that you could use a Hero Point instead if you've run out of CA - but only if you've run out). If you have a weapon stuck in you and left there by some fiend, you have to wait until your next available CA to withdraw it (or burn a HP to do it immediately).
So, my sincere apologies for the confusion; it wasn't intentional. You may also be interested to know that in the course of shifting two bush cords of logs I suffered several impales to my fingers and thumbs and may have done lasting damage to something soft and squishy internally.
If you're doing the impaling, you can make an immediate attempt to pull it out at the cost of 1 CA (I would rule that you could use a Hero Point instead if you've run out of CA - but only if you've run out). If you have a weapon stuck in you and left there by some fiend, you have to wait until your next available CA to withdraw it (or burn a HP to do it immediately).
So, my sincere apologies for the confusion; it wasn't intentional. You may also be interested to know that in the course of shifting two bush cords of logs I suffered several impales to my fingers and thumbs and may have done lasting damage to something soft and squishy internally.
Jujitsudave
Mongoose
Ah, straight from the mouth of Loz, Redcrow. Then it seems you MAY do an immediate yank at the cost of 1 CA after all. I will not forget this as the group meets more nasties!
OK. As for arrows, you know my houserule on that, Redcrow. I don't have a problem with spending a CA to break an impaling arrow to temporarily eliminate the penalty if you get shot, as a hint for future battles, now that I think about it.
Anyway, although it has no bearing on my campaign due to the technology level, I'd say that weapons with blood grooves can automatically succeed on yank attempts after an impale. Make sense?
OK. As for arrows, you know my houserule on that, Redcrow. I don't have a problem with spending a CA to break an impaling arrow to temporarily eliminate the penalty if you get shot, as a hint for future battles, now that I think about it.
Anyway, although it has no bearing on my campaign due to the technology level, I'd say that weapons with blood grooves can automatically succeed on yank attempts after an impale. Make sense?
Jujitsudave said:
Yes, that certainly makes Impale a quite nasty maneuver, but I personally like that.
Jujitsudave said:
Absolutely. I'm in total agreement there. Getting shot with an arrow (or even a thrown spear) isn't going to be pleasant.
Jujitsudave said:
Makes sense. Automatic is very generous. You could also just give a hefty bonus to the Brawn test for blood grooves along the blade. Either way.
[edit] Also, there is an optional rule that if you use the same maneuver(s) repeatedly in a fight your opponent gains a bonus to defend against successive uses. That can help keep overuse of certain maneuvers in check.
Jujitsudave
Mongoose
Certainly. That "multiple use" penalty is in effect.
What I find is lacking with the impale is a good answer to the question: What happens if you don't get the weapon out, but wants to hang on to it? (I hope you agree that this is a valid concern for some fighters?)
To me the most likely outcome would be like a sort of mutual grapple, where both hit locations (weapon arm and target location) is "kind of" grabbed and useless until one of the combatants can manage a brawn test or somehow break free. This should certainly be more debilitating than a simple "weapon cannot be used to parry" IMO.
Additionally:
Shouldn't there be some kind of bonus to the brawn test to remove 2H impaling weapons?
To me the most likely outcome would be like a sort of mutual grapple, where both hit locations (weapon arm and target location) is "kind of" grabbed and useless until one of the combatants can manage a brawn test or somehow break free. This should certainly be more debilitating than a simple "weapon cannot be used to parry" IMO.
Additionally:
Shouldn't there be some kind of bonus to the brawn test to remove 2H impaling weapons?
This came up in a test combat I just ran. The PC impaled the right arm of his enemy, but failed to immediately extract the weapon (a spear). The player said he wanted to hold on to it. I said that was okay (I didn't want to slow things down too much). What do most of you do in that situation?Isengrim said:
The PC holding on to the impaling spear did cause another question because his enemy wanted to disengage. I wasn't sure how to handle a disengage when the opponent is holding onto an impaling weapon.
I ended up rolling Evade vs. Brawn, and ruled that one level of success would disengage and free the weapon, causing damage, while two levels of success would disengage with the weapon still embedded (i.e. the PC loses his grip on the spear).
Khamulcalle
Mongoose
Why would you get to use the next CA right away only cause you have your sword in your opponent? If you get impaled but manage to kill him with your CA right after, and the fight is over, someone could fix you up with good magic and heal (maybe) but if your opponent get to use his CA right after he implaed you, you would prolly die...
I cant see why he suddenly should get 2 CA right after each other, when you dont get it on the other CA (its to powerfull to get 2 CA like that) Then it should be a crit-only CM
just my two cent (and my players) hehe!
/K
I cant see why he suddenly should get 2 CA right after each other, when you dont get it on the other CA (its to powerfull to get 2 CA like that) Then it should be a crit-only CM
just my two cent (and my players) hehe!
/K
Morgan d'Barganfore
Mongoose
You could try coupling impale (especially upper body) with a trip, should the opportunity occur..
Khamulcalle said:
This question actually came up in the forums awhile ago and was clarified by Loz that you are indeed allowed to immediately spend an additional CA to withdraw a weapon after a successful impale. (Except of course in the case of arrows, thrown spears, and other missile weapons obviously).
Also note that on the Combat Maneuvers sheet available as a free .pdf it mentions that additional damage is done 'per attempt' at withdrawal of an impaling weapon. In that instance its actually good to have a low Brawn skill as each failed attempt to pull a weapon free will do additional damage and the target gets no benefit from armor.
Impale is indeed a very deadly Combat Maneuver, but IMO that is as it should be.
Khamulcalle
Mongoose
Wrong, it's when you pull out the weapon you make that damage. When the weapon is still in the body it will add a X% difficulty to the victims abilities.
I still think loz was right the first time he comment on this thred
/K
