IJN Fleet ??

[Breten]

So I've pre-ordered the book and want to get started on buying my Jaoanese fleet. Going by the battle report from Signs & Portents, the IJN list will have access to the following:

IJN Nagato (Battleship)
IJN Kongo (Battlecruiser)
IJN Mogami Cruiser
IJN Furutaka (Light Cruiser)
IJN Kagero-class Destroyers
IJN Fubuki-class Destroyers

Of these I've managed to track down the following GHQ miniatures:

IJN 9 Kongo Battlecruiser
IJN 17 Mogami Cruiser
IJN 18 Nagato Battleship
IJN 17 Fubuki Class Destroyers

I'm wondering if there's a way I can find out what some of the other ships can be found in the Imperial Japanese Navy list. Hopefully the Yamato, in addition to those and the KD-7 Submarines, and Kagero (just modified Fubuki?) Destroyers. Is there a short rundown of which ships?

 

[The Greek]

The following are available in the game to start with:

Shokaku Aircraft Carrier

Yamato BB
Nagato BB
Kongo BC

Cruisers are Aoba, Nagara, Sendai, Mogami, Takao, Furutaka class

Destroyers are Fubuki and Kagero class.

Subs are Hei-Gata and Kadai-7

Also Zeros, Kates, Vals, Shindens, etc

Of course the rest of the IJN will turn up in Signs and Portents at some point in the future, with luck!

 

[Breten]

Thanks. Now to figure out who's ships to buy.

 

[Breten]

Anyone know where I can find models for the Hei-Gata and Kadai-7 Japanese submarines. All I seem to be able to locate are I-15's and I-400's. I suppose in the grand scheme of things I could get away with using those.

 

[Breten]

Well, I've gone with GHQ for the models. I went down to the LGS during a break this afternoon, and grabbed myself the Yamato BB from GHQ. I also grabbed the Graf Spee, Exeter and one Leander. Unfortuntaely the 2nd Leander won't be in until next month. They only carry one of each generally. Unless of course we manage to find one in the backstock.

I'm on my way.

 

[BuShips]

It looks as if you have succeeded in starting your very own arms race :wink: . Good luck, and have fun! Good choice of ships, btw.

 

[Breten]

Yep. I am going to build a Japanese fleet, but I figured I'd put together the "Demo Forces" from S&P #29. This way I can easily teach people. I could always use the counters, but I am a miniatures guy so of course, I MUST have.

Next purchase will be some more Japanese ships and then the rulebook as soon as it arrives.

 

[BuShips]

Yep. I am going to build a Japanese fleet, but I figured I'd put together the "Demo Forces" from S&P #29. This way I can easily teach people. I could always use the counters, but I am a miniatures guy so of course, I MUST have.

Next purchase will be some more Japanese ships and then the rulebook as soon as it arrives.

Make sure to grab the Oi and Kitakami, just for fun. :wink: They will raise your eyebrows. In the great words of Starship Troopers, "Would you like to know more?" :idea:

 

[Breten]

Yep. I am going to build a Japanese fleet, but I figured I'd put together the "Demo Forces" from S&P #29. This way I can easily teach people. I could always use the counters, but I am a miniatures guy so of course, I MUST have.

Next purchase will be some more Japanese ships and then the rulebook as soon as it arrives.

Make sure to grab the Oi and Kitakami, just for fun. :wink: They will raise your eyebrows. In the great words of Starship Troopers, "Would you like to know more?" :idea:

Fill me in. I'm new to the historical hobby. I admit to some Flames o War and having a copy of DBA and Crossfire, but my knowledge is little.

 

[E Nicely]

Anyone know where I can find models for the Hei-Gata and Kadai-7 Japanese submarines. All I seem to be able to locate are I-15's and I-400's. I suppose in the grand scheme of things I could get away with using those.

I know GHQ DOESN'T make them. I had a little bit to do with those being the subs that made the Japanese list, didn't take into account what models I'd be able to get in 1:2400.

I like your list of mins BTW. The Nagato and Mogami are some of my favorite ships as far as VaS goes. You'll like em.

 

[DM]

Oi and Kitakami began life as fairly conventioanl light cruisers with a rather archaic (by WW2) armament of 5.5" guns in individual open mounts. However, in 1941 they were taken in hand for conversion to torpedo cruisers, carrying (IIRC) 40 (!!) Type 93 torpedoes (often referred to as the "Long Lance", although this name was adopted post war). They were intended to provide the opening salvo in the Japanese view of how a 1930s surface action would be fought - launching massed salvoes of torpedoes at long range so as to break up the American battle line. The concept was flawed and the ships were never used in the manner intended. Both had a number of tubes replaced by landing craft, allowing them to be used as fast transports. Kitakami was later modified to act as a carrier for kaiten suicide submarines.

More stuff here:

http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3

 

[Darkghost]

I play a PC game called NavyField. Its a WWII naval game, not really realistic at all, but its really fun. Anyway, in NF the KitaKami works exactly as the Japanese intended them to... and those that can't aviod the massive torpedo wall start yelling at those "torpwhoring noobs."

Anyway, here's the link if your interested. www.navyfield.com. (that was hard ).

 

[Breten]

Here's a complete list of what's avaialable from GHQ so no one else needs to do the searching. Codes are next to the ship if GHQ produces one.

CV Shokaku (IJN-14)

BB Yamato (IJN-15)
BB Nagato (IJN-18
BC Kongo (IJN-9)

CA Aoba (IJN-12)
CL Nagara (IJN-24)
CA Mogami (IJN-17)
CA Furutaka (IJN-32 CA Kako)
CL Sendai (IJN-16 CL Jintsu)
CA Takao (IJN-11 CA Maya or IJN-45 CA Chokai)

DD Fubuki Class (IJN-22)
Kagero

Hei-Gata
Kadai-7

NAVWAR have the same, but also the Takao cruisers and Kagero destroyers.

Panzerschiffe have everything except for the Aoba class and subs. Though from what I can tell Aoba, Kako, and Furutaka are all similar if not the same class.

 

[E Nicely]

^You sure they don't make a Sendai and Takao? I'll have to look but I'm pretty sure I have some made by GHQ.

 

[Breten]

From what I can tell, they aren't strictly listed, and I can't find the class at the moment.

 

[Breten]

After diggin a little more, I found that the Sendai Class ship also had the Jintsu and the Takao class contained the Maya and Chokai, so those would be good stand in models from GHQ.

 

[BuShips]

Oi and Kitakami began life as fairly conventioanl light cruisers with a rather archaic (by WW2) armament of 5.5" guns in individual open mounts. However, in 1941 they were taken in hand for conversion to torpedo cruisers, carrying (IIRC) 40 (!!) Type 93 torpedoes (often referred to as the "Long Lance", although this name was adopted post war). They were intended to provide the opening salvo in the Japanese view of how a 1930s surface action would be fought - launching massed salvoes of torpedoes at long range so as to break up the American battle line. The concept was flawed and the ships were never used in the manner intended. Both had a number of tubes replaced by landing craft, allowing them to be used as fast transports. Kitakami was later modified to act as a carrier for kaiten suicide submarines.

More stuff here:

http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3

You pretty much answered Breton's question. Thanks, DM! Oh, yes the number carried was 40. You can launch 20, do a 180-deg. turn and fire the other 20. :wink: To be fair to history, there was insufficient fire control to aim at multiple ships at the same time so this diminished the best use. Of course, you can target one large enemy ship and be fairly sure of a hard-kill, which still makes the ship dangerous. I also suppose you could ration the salvoes to spend the torpedoes over a series of turns, but I don't suppose the enemy is going to really allow the ship to do this without due attention to it as a primary target. If used in a late-war configuration, the Kitakami was also a Kaiten carrier, as DM mentioned. My favorite "weapon" in WW2 naval games is the 24" Long Lance. The USN didn't believe the rumors of it having a longer range than "normal torps (it had 3x the range of the US 21"), and I believe had almost double the warhead of other torpedoes. It was quite possible and almost normal to break up a destroyer (snap into two pieces) with average torpedoes, but only the Long Lance had the ability to break up larger warships, like cruisers (and it did). One of my most favorite cruiser designs, the St. Louis class, lost one ship (St. Louis' sistership USS Helena) to Long Lance attack. Three torpedoes hit, severing the 15,000 ton cuiser into three sections, which then settled into the waters of Kula Gulf during a night battle.

 

[E Nicely]

The Kitikama was a nasty ship. One other thing is that it was refitted (with nthe 40 torp tubes) as part of a strategy to wage war at night using type 93 torps as the big equalizer for US ship weaponry. It would have bad for the US if the torpedo cruisers would have gone into full scale deployment or if the 2 that did exist were more effectively used.

 

[BuShips]

The Kitikama was a nasty ship. One other thing is that it was refitted (with nthe 40 torp tubes) as part of a strategy to wage war at night using type 93 torps as the big equalizer for US ship weaponry. It would have bad for the US if the torpedo cruisers would have gone into full scale deployment or if the 2 that did exist were more effectively used.

One limiting factor was that Imperial Japan didn't have endless supplies of 24" type 93's. They were an expensive weapon, and as I mentioned the fire control technology didn't exist to effectively use them to their full potential. The ships were included in the escorting forces during the Midway Operation, and I sure would not have wanted any of my US fleet carriers anywhere near these ships. The Japanese surface fleet doctrine of the 1930's that envisioned these was giving way to the same realities that redirected the Shinano to be completed as a carrier. Still, anyone that is collecting Imperial Japan's ships will surely want several of these modified light cruisers, and this is why I mentioned them to Breton. It somewhat deflates my own past infatuation with the ships, but look for info on how Adm. Ugaki critiques them.

 

[E Nicely]

Still, anyone that is collecting Imperial Japan's ships will surely want several of these modified light cruisers, and this is why I mentioned them to Breton.

Funny you should mention that. I just submitted an article to S&P that features the Kitikama. We'll see what happens.