If you ever wanted to know the origins of the concept for the Aslan...

[WHULorigan]

The Aslan are not as big as the Kzinti, they don't behave like the Kzinti, they don't have the same social structures as the Kzinti, there's essentially nothing in common except "kind of cat like alien".

And as I recall, the Kzinti are somewhat more vaguely "Tiger-like" than "Lion-like", at least in appearance.

But as far as inspiration goes we do have:

• " Kuzu " (= Kusyu) likely inspired by "Kzin"
• " Kilrai' " (= Kilane Subsector) likely inspired by "Kilrathi"

But other than that, they are culturally and behaviorally completely different.

 

[Yatima]

the Aslan don't act like the Kzinti

What's being argued is not that the Aslan are a direct lift of the Kzinti in all details, but that they are a primary inspiration for the Aslan.

J

 

[Sigtrygg]

Cat like aliens existed before the Kzinti.
Were the folks at GDW influenced by the Kzinti - likely yes.
Has the fanon and poor research introduced more Kzinti and Kilrathi like Aslan, most definitely yes.

 

[Vormaerin]

What's being argued is not that the Aslan are a direct lift of the Kzinti in all details, but that they are a primary inspiration for the Aslan.

J

okay. But the only thing they have in common is being felinoid space aliens. They aren't just not a direct lift, they have basically nothing in common. Their physiology is significantly different, their political structure is different, their gender roles are different, their honor code is different, their relations to humans are different.

Even if GDW guys said "hey, cat aliens! We should have some!" after reading Known Space, any attempt to link the Aslan to the Kzinti is not just meaningless, but counterproductive. Anything you read about the Kzinti beyond "cat alien" is simply wrong for the Aslan.

 

[Condottiere]

M'Ress Scenes & Other Moments

M'Ress Scenes & Other Moments from Star Trek The Animated Series.

 

[actionman]

M'Ress Scenes & Other Moments

M'Ress Scenes & Other Moments from Star Trek The Animated Series.

If she were really a cat person all she'd say is "Feed me. Feed me. Let me in. Let me out. I'm not going out. Feed me."

 

[actionman]

they have basically nothing in common

One could say the same for the Aslan and the Hani.

 

[Yatima]

okay. But the only thing they have in common is being felinoid space aliens. They aren't just not a direct lift, they have basically nothing in common. Their physiology is significantly different, their political structure is different, their gender roles are different, their honor code is different, their relations to humans are different.

Even if GDW guys said "hey, cat aliens! We should have some!" after reading Known Space, any attempt to link the Aslan to the Kzinti is not just meaningless, but counterproductive. Anything you read about the Kzinti beyond "cat alien" is simply wrong for the Aslan.

I'm not sure that's so. The Aslan and Kzinti are both felinoid, with warrior cultures that emphasise personal honour and a stark delineation between male and female roles in their cultures. In both cases, they did not discover the setting's star drive for themselves (the Aslan learning it from a crashed Solomani scout ship, the Kzinti stealing it from the Jotoki). Both races pose a threat to mankind because of the male thirst for land and an honourable name. There are more parallels.

In any case, while we can argue all day about whether this or that book is the primary inspiration for the Aslan – almost all of the traits above could be derived by looking at a pride of lions and extrapolating an alien race from that source, in which the appearance and roles of males and females differs greatly, the males are concerned mostly with dominating other males for access to breeding females etc.

I guess the real question is, why argue against the Kzinti being an influence? What's at stake? It'd be deeply strange if the Traveller authors had not read Niven and did not take some inspiration from those stories. Deeply strange. So this seems like a 'Yes and ...' situation to me rather than a 'No but ...'. Wouldn't you agree?

J

 

[Vormaerin]

I guess the real question is, why argue against the Kzinti being an influence? What's at stake? It'd be deeply strange if the Traveller authors had not read Niven and did not take some inspiration from those stories. Deeply strange. So this seems like a 'Yes and ...' situation to me rather than a 'No but ...'. Wouldn't you agree?

J

Because, as Sigtrygg mentioned earlier, it has been a constant problem with writers treating the Aslan like they are Kzinti. And the artists as well, with all these giant "Aslan" in recent Mongoose art.

Niven's pretty popular, so lots of Niven-isms get made into 'fanon', not just with the Aslan. And people talk about these things in magazine articles and fan discussion (which is fine as far as it goes), but then those things often end up treated as sources, either because those fans end up freelancers or that stuff is read and thought to be 'fact'.

That appears to be how the idea that you have to have a sentient on board to jump without error got into the Mongoose rules. It's likely why the Aslan in some recent art are half again as tall as the humans around them.

It's been a thing for decades. The Aslan are their own thing. They aren't Hani, they aren't Kilrathi, they aren't Kzinti. Obviously, if you want to lean heavily into one of those in your home game, no big deal. But it, unfortunately, been proved necessary to push back on that as some kind of community consensus because of just how popular the Niven and Star Trek Kzinti are. And I don't want the Aslan to become a third version of the Kzinti.

 

[Condottiere]

Function follows form.

They look like lions.

They act like lions.

 

[Sigtrygg]

"Early Terran explorers regarded the Aslan as "lion-like," and the simile has stuck ever since, although the Aslan bear little resemblance to Terrestrial lions. Nonetheless, this early misnomer has influenced a great deal of human thinking about the Aslan, including terminology (the use of pride to translate ahriy, for instance) and ascribed behavior-which is not at all leonine. The derivation of the word Aslan is unknown, but is sometimes credited to human explorers who first contacted the race*."

*Later it is revealed the original Terrans were Turks and the world aslan meaning lion, fearless, warrior

 

[Yatima]

Because, as Sigtrygg mentioned earlier, it has been a constant problem with writers treating the Aslan like they are Kzinti. And the artists as well, with all these giant "Aslan" in recent Mongoose art.

Sure, but that's no reason to argue that Niven's works did not inspire the aliens we find in Traveller when they clearly did. We can't ban discussions of this because people lean into the connection too hard.

If I have an issue with artistic representations of the Aslan, it's certainly not that they look like a Kzin (fan-folding ears, bare tails like a rat, appearance a lot more like tigers or other predatory felines than a lion). My issue would be artists straight up taking a male lion's head and plonking it on a humanoid body, so that we end up with Clarence the unfriendly space lion . All too common in recent years.

For my money, the Aslan depiction in DGP products was the best.

 

[WHULorigan]

For my money, the Aslan depiction in DGP products was the best.

Those were my favorites as well, along with some of the Keith artwork.