Ideas for shotguns?

Perkanis83

Mongoose
As the title suggests I am looking for some ideas to make shotguns behave well like shotguns in traveler and before anyone asks yes me and my group have looked at the field catalogue rules and we found them wanting. The main theme that seems to be complained about is that shotguns should be easier to hit with the FURTHER from the shooter the target is not closer in while gradually losing stopping and or penetrating power.

Now our first idea was to make it so shotguns would retain the penalty to hit when firing solid slugs of stuff but lose it when firing shot of any kind, and also gain spread for each range band after the first with no penalty's for range while gaining a armor multiplier for each range band after the first.

So we shoot a 4D shotgun loaded with shot it would in the first range band have no to hit bonus but also no penalty to amour pen, in the second range band it Would gain +2 to hit and multiply armor by 2, in the third range band this would increase to 3 for each and in the last range band it would cap out at +4 to hit and times 4 to any armor value the target has. Sounds reasonable or are we being stupid?

Alongside this we are also planning to ditch the bulky and very bulky traits for all shotguns.
 

Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
The spread on modern buckshot is not very great. Less than a teenager's fist at 25 yards in many cases.
 

Sigtrygg

Emperor Mongoose
Do a google search on shotgun strings, choke effects, shot spread...

just looking through the images I learned a lot, but I have no idea how to link the pictures, so I recommend those search terms.
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
Realism and Field Catalogue design rules are on nodding acquaintance.

You have to reflect why your group wants (and/or needs) shotguns, and which subcategory.

For me it's simple, law level six loophole and inexpensiveness.

You can overcome inaccuracy, but it costs you, and in my opinion, with all other available options in a science fiction game, probably not worth it.

A choke can impart spin to a slug, so in theory should remove at least one point of inaccuracy.

If you have carefully sighted, and improvised some form of cushioning effect, that should remove bulkiness.

If it's specialized ammunition, like a bean bag, that wouldn't spread.
 

Saladman

Banded Mongoose
+2 to hit ... cap out at +4 to hit ... Sounds reasonable or are we being stupid?

You are... profoundly misunderstanding both the scale of the 2d6 dice system, and the real aiming required in hitting, say, a clay pigeon or a bird in flight. I'm trying to be less of an asshole online recently, but if there were a non-pejorative way of saying stupid, then yes, stupid.

Alongside this we are also planning to ditch the bulky and very bulky traits for all shotguns.

For what purpose?
 

Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
Alongside this we are also planning to ditch the bulky and very bulky traits for all shotguns.
As I stated in another thread on this matter, go to a Police Academy range when they begin training on shotguns and watch the female recruits.
The bulky trait is warranted.
 

phavoc

Cosmic Mongoose
It depends on your ammo really. Shot may have energy, but not as much penetration power as a slug (mass of the round vs. different types of armor). So you have a question of hitting vs. damaging your target. And as mentioned you can control the spread of the round via the choke. You basically have to determine range first, set your shotgun up for that, and then engage in combat. As a referee I would penalize a player a round to change the optimal range of their weapon (i.e. from short to medium), and also include the type of ammo they are firing - slugs are slugs regardless, only shot or special ammo would spread out after leaving the barrel.

An auto-shotgun (especially a belt-fed or drum fed one) has a high rate of fire and can spray your target area with lethal metal.
 

Arkathan

Cosmic Mongoose
The Kel-Tec KSG 15 Round (7+7+1) Shotgun has a selector switch under magazine loading port that lets you switch between the two separate ammo magazines. The center position of the switch allows you to load a third type directly into the chamber by blocking both tubes.
This would be a similar action to switching between semi-auto, burst and automatic fire, and so would not cost a round, providing you select on an empty chamber or after firing the round in the chamber.

See attached. No guarantees I did the math correctly (the example below isn't a 7+7).
But with tech accessories, you essentially get the bonus to hit and remove the bulky trait.
 

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phavoc

Cosmic Mongoose
The Kel-Tec KSG 15 Round (7+7+1) Shotgun has a selector switch under magazine loading port that lets you switch between the two separate ammo magazines. The center position of the switch allows you to load a third type directly into the chamber by blocking both tubes.
This would be a similar action to switching between semi-auto, burst and automatic fire, and so would not cost a round, providing you select on an empty chamber or after firing the round in the chamber.

See attached. No guarantees I did the math correctly (the example below isn't a 7+7).
But with tech accessories, you essentially get the bonus to hit and remove the bulky trait.
That's handy for changing ammo, though it wouldn't address any sort of spread via the choke (though I suppose you could control some of that via the ammo itself). This sort of thing would be handy to switch between shot and slugs for when pesky armored things show up.

Maybe using a flechette-type round instead of shot would allow for less spread at a distance? I'm not entirely sure on the mechanics of such things though. Anybody know about this??
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
What's the difference between a heavy rifle bullet with flechettes, and the shot gun pellets?

We can stuff them with pellets as well, which is what I understand the Taurus Judge does.
 

Saladman

Banded Mongoose
Another direction to go with shotguns is custom ammo. They're bulky enough you can do more than slugs or shot, flechette has already been mentioned, or the term for a single dart instead of multiple is sabot, and now you can even get fancy with a dinosaur-dosed tranquilizer round, there's gel or beanbag, incendiary is a thing even if maybe smaller machine gun incendiary but more rounds is better, there's even enough room to do something completely stupid and useless like building a one use taser into a shotgun round (wouldn't that still kill them? yes, likely, but gun nerds know no limits).

I've even seen directions for emptying out a shot shell, loading it, shoving a measured and machined dowel down into it, and using it as a launcher for something else, or just stakes to kill vampires. Actual accuracy moves it back into freaking stupid territory, but I can see a PC getting some use out of it once in a pinch.
 

Perkanis83

Mongoose
You are... profoundly misunderstanding both the scale of the 2d6 dice system, and the real aiming required in hitting, say, a clay pigeon or a bird in flight. I'm trying to be less of an asshole online recently, but if there were a non-pejorative way of saying stupid, then yes, stupid.



For what purpose?
The to hit bonuses was an attempt to use the spread rules from field cat while making them "universal" in that a short range gun will have its spread fast but also have a short effective range,

Getting rid of the Bulky rules for rifle sized weapons is due to it feeling weird, I will admit that recoil from a shotgun is not easy to handle but you are not going to be essentially unable to hit with a shotgun even if you get seated on your ass after the boom happens.

Now there is one other way to treat shotguns that I can think of from the top of my head and that is to simply treat them as short ranged rifles and go "yeah if you are in range for the shot to do anything it is essentially a slug" so a shotgun is treated just as a short ranged rifle with no extra bonuses or distinguishing features.
 
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