I see the ISA's "allies" rule as being what it was when the ISA was initially formed. Like a police force. The White Star fleet would show up to settle any border disputes, so they would likely be accompanied by some ships of the "victim", to repel the "aggressor" from their territory. That is why you're limited to one ally race.
i.s.a. fleet
- Thread starter leagionair
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Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
That and interests of game balance, I suppose...
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
Davesaint said:
There might be another approach to the issue which shouldn´t go against your view of common sense:
the ISA fleet list as it stands is little more than a police force.
If you want an ISA modeled after the Allies & the NATO, use the rules for a mixed League fleet, because that´s what they are there for. You can always house rule that such a fleet might not include Raiders, but instead ships from the ISA list.
Really, when using a combined "NATOesque" ISA fleet, I´d much rather suggest to approach that from the League-fleet angle rather than from the Ranger fleet that is represented by the current ISA fleet list.
So, I go as far as saying that to be really accurate, the ISA fleet should loose it´s ability to ally league ships (not that they need them anymore anyway, with all the new ship designs in the list). Instead, a league fleet should be allowed to ally ISA ships (maybe limited to 1 or two fleet points).
Things like the Drakh assault on Earth, the battle for Corianna 6 or the Narn/Drazi attack on the Centauri homeworld are prime examples for special scenarios, which don´t have to comply to all the standard rules anyway.
MustEatBrains said:
The problem is the game already has made "canon" things that were very uncommon into the rules of the game - see Jump Point Bombs(or waves as they are currently called). These were used in very, very limited situations in the show, and very rarely, but now they are common place.
What's the difference? I have given 3 distinct major battles in which the allies of the ISA(Army of Light) showed up together both before the shadow threat was eliminated and after, and yet Jump Point Bombs which were seen ONCE outside of the "Bonehead Maneuver" that the whitestar did in a Jump Gate is now a common and accepted practice. The total film time for jump point bombing was less than 30 seconds in 5 seasons of the show.
Take a look at all of the scenes with Babylon 5 in it. How many Minbari, Narn, EA, and League ships are there defending it?
Dave
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The ISA member ships defending B5 is a special case, after the Clark loyalist attack on the station. How often do we see the White Stars or Victory destroyers operating with (former) League, Minbari, Narn or EA ships? Only the Drakh attack on Earth, and that was another special case.
I like the idea of using a League fleet to represent the Interstellar Alliance, since the actual League of Non-Aligned Worlds so seldom fought together. Drop Raiders from the options and add an FAP of Minbari, Narn or EA and/or White Stars and you have your ISA fleet.
I like the idea of using a League fleet to represent the Interstellar Alliance, since the actual League of Non-Aligned Worlds so seldom fought together. Drop Raiders from the options and add an FAP of Minbari, Narn or EA and/or White Stars and you have your ISA fleet.
Lord David the Denied said:
Except you see them protecting the station even after Clark was deposed. The Victory Class ship was only seen in A Call To Arms movie and then in Crusade. The one in Crusade was the only Victory that was in existance at the time, and was sent on the mission to find a cure for the Drakh plague. however, you saw whitestars working with the league and Minbari constantly.
Dave
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I don't remember seeing White Stars working with the League and Minbari constantly. When was this?
were there league and minbari at the drakh attack on earth? didnt remember seeing any.
the whitestar fleet tended to operate alone for the most part.
the many differant races defending B5 were there as part of a mutual defense contract to defend B5 and that was set up before the formation of the ISA.
the whitestar fleet tended to operate alone for the most part.
the many differant races defending B5 were there as part of a mutual defense contract to defend B5 and that was set up before the formation of the ISA.
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
there has to be a separation between the fleets somewhere. Sure, you could make a list using ships from the League, Rangers, Narns, Earth and Minbari, but that would be something very daft for the game. Really, why bother with 20 fleet lists when you can just mix half of them together in a single one?
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
I´m not saying being able to choose from different allies at once would be a big deal; I just say that being able to choose from 10 different fleets at once would be a bit much. Sure, it´s only a single FP, but I´m still not convinced that the ISA fleet we have at the moment is really supposed to be that big, mixed military force that should have to have access to everything at once. (Go mixed League go! 
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David Anla Shok'
Mongoose
The bigger the better, the more the merrier. Spread the wealth
Just to back up Dave a bit, we did see Whitestars going to the aid of the Drazi during the Drahk influenced attacks conducted by the Centauri. I suppose you could claim this was a three way scenario or that the nearly even amounts of Drazi and ISA (FP wise anyway) was a 'special situation' but I wouldn't rule it that way.
At the battle to free earth from Clark's regime we see a mixed fleet of league, EA and whitestars at when Clarke turns the planetary defenses against earth itself.
I would hardly call the defense of B5 a special circumstance either. It was the primary stronghold of the Army of Light, and served as base of the ISA until it was moved to Minbar. I don't remember anywhere being given the impression that once the whitestars showed up that the defense arrangement changed.
Not that big an issue really, and I like the idea of having an 'Army of Light' rule similar to a 'League' rule. Say you must use at least 1/3 of your FP on an additional race...or maybe minimum three races 1 FP each...rest as choice? Must have more than two races each of which must have an full FP? That way you could have everyone but centaurii in the army of light, league could have...well, the league (maybe without raiders this time)...eh...
Ripple
At the battle to free earth from Clark's regime we see a mixed fleet of league, EA and whitestars at when Clarke turns the planetary defenses against earth itself.
I would hardly call the defense of B5 a special circumstance either. It was the primary stronghold of the Army of Light, and served as base of the ISA until it was moved to Minbar. I don't remember anywhere being given the impression that once the whitestars showed up that the defense arrangement changed.
Not that big an issue really, and I like the idea of having an 'Army of Light' rule similar to a 'League' rule. Say you must use at least 1/3 of your FP on an additional race...or maybe minimum three races 1 FP each...rest as choice? Must have more than two races each of which must have an full FP? That way you could have everyone but centaurii in the army of light, league could have...well, the league (maybe without raiders this time)...eh...
Ripple
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
I think "Army of Light" rule pre ISA would be nice ...
all in favour???
all in favour???
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
Da Boss said:Make a interesting list -
Could use a special missile armed WS varient then if you wanted :wink:
Im working on it
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