I ran a HeroQuest!

PhilHibbs

Mongoose
Yesterday afternoon I ran the Chalk Man myth from The Book of Heortling Mythology, with the addition of a prequel stage of the myth where Kolat meets Granny Vo and Uncle.

I started out by baffling and boring them with the God Learning 101 lecture from the 1st Edition Jrustela book. Then they met the Order of Greater Glorification scholar who was going to act as guide on the quest, casting Open HeroQuest Gate, Energise Mythic Mask, and potentially Maintain HeroQuest or Deflect Mythic Backlash if required. He told them the myth, and discussed with them who should play what role, what they could do to help complete the stations, and what kinds of rewards they could aim to gain. They went shopping for some magical dice, but decided that they were too expensive to buy so they rented them, I figured that an industry has grown around providing props to heroquesters. They also hired two supporters who would provide a Hero Point each for anyone to use on the quest, this cost them 500sp per supporter. Benito, the trickster, I gave the ability to make a Lore roll (which I later decided should probably have been Pact) to catch a Hero Point that had been spent for re-use later in the quest but not to keep. This turned out to be very powerful, perhaps too much so, no-one had to spend any personal Hero Points at all as they kept re-using them due to lucky (and trickster-gift-cheated) dice rolls.

I also allow the use of Common Magic, as much of the quest writeups in the Issaries library books mention Fireblade, Mobility, Coordination, etc.

The guide took them to the Gate Room where he used a powerful Open HeroQuest Gate spell matrix in the form of a large iron-bound stone ring with runes carved on it that rotated to line up the right runic combination, and they walk through, first Granny Vo, Uncle and Kolat to arrive on the plain by the tent, then Chalk Man and Rabbitface to start in the valley where they come into existence and hide in the lair respectively.

The characters played the roles of Chalk Man, Kolat, Rabbitface, Uncle, and Dora. The Dora character started off in the role of Granny Vo and then switched roles through a fresh casting of Energise Mythic Mask to switch costumes to be Dora.

The characters who were playing the roles in each station in turn role-played their roles, mostly remembered the details with two Hero Point uses to guide them when they forgot an important detail such as what the powers of the Three Bow are and what Kolat wagered against Chalk Man in their first gambling bet. Each station rewarded everyone with 1 Hero Point plus a bonus of 1 or 2 points for the active participants depending on how well they performed their role. 2 points were awarded for a flawless performance, 1 if there was any way in which they could have done it better, they got about a 50-50 success rate at the flawless performance. I divided the myth into 6 stations including the extra one at the start giving a potential reward of 16 for Chalk Man who was in 5 of the 6 stations. I let people cast helpful spells on each other if there is time in or between stations.

Kolat gives the proper greeting to Granny Vo and Uncle (courtesy check) who welcome him and give him the Three Bow. Station 1 complete.

Chalk Man draws a chalk silhouette of himself on the ground and says "That was me. I am Chalk Man." He finds the lair (perception check) and challenges Rabbitface, but loses (afterr accidentally rolling a crit on his gambling, and using a Hero Point to re-roll it) and has his eyes ripped out (ouch) - I did give him the option of avoiding the blindness somehow but he chose to do it properly. Station 2 complete.

The other questers are brought in as extras to taunt Chalk Man as he stumbles blindly around, I roll a dice to see if any other random participants are provided by the mythic world, but none are, so there are no unexpected interruptions. He stumbles into Granny Vo's tent who greets him and feeds him and says he can stay for a night and a day. The Rabbitface character is dressed as a badger and comes into the tent, fails to run away and is grabbed by Chalk Man with an Athletics check. He gives Badger to Granny Vo, who thanks him and rewards him by giving him her three daughters as wives. Station 3 done.

The Granny Vo character switches roles to Dora and marries Chalk Man, and tells him how Uncle has been mean to her. Uncle follows her when she goes to gather food, he got a bit confused between this stage and the later one, so that cost him a pointon his reward. Dora shouts for Chalk Man when Uncle pounces on her, and makes a difficult Perception check to track them down, and kills Uncle with crit to the head for maximum damage. His mother turns up and is angry, but gives birth to him as a girl. When he grows up, a random stranger turns up and molests him, so he makes a Persistence check to kill himself. Mum is angry again and gives birth to him as a boy again, and is so sorry for what he has done that he gives Chalk Man some new gambling sticks (the dice they acquired earlier). Station 4 done.

Chalk Man goes off and finds the lair again (another difficult Perception check) and challenges Rabbitface to get his eyes back. He wins, challenges him again to free Kolat, then Kolat's brothers, then the gods, then the people, then Rabbitface's life. He crushes Rabbitface's skull and - instead of a maggot - a wyrm bursts out. This is the group's "recurring enemy", brought on by their fight against a dragon in an earlier session, a dream emanation of the true dragon whose dream they killed. Everyone is there, having been freed from the prison, except Rabbitface who is dead on the floor. I let him roll initiative along with everyone else, he will have a chance to roll Persistence, Resilience, or Brawn to bring himself back to life. Kim / Morticia / Dora goes first, tries to befuddle the wyrm but it resists. Chalk Man goes next and rolls Influence to persuade it that they are friends, and it fails to resist so is convinced that it is in fact Ikspit the Maggot, and shrinks back into Rabbitface's skull. Station 5 done.

Kolat comes to Chalk Man's lair and asks him to gamble, but can't remember what he is supposed to wager, so a Hero Point is used to remind him that it is his wife, but having no gambling skill he proposes a throwing competition, which he wins. He comes back and challenges again, this time he decides to try gambling "I am always changing, never constant, I will try this new thing", and having no skill at gambling, Chalk Man handily beats him, Kolat blew his cards everywhere so Chalk Man could see them. Station 6 done, quest is complete.

They come out with between 12 and 16 Hero Points - including those they started with, from 2 to 4, now I need to figure the Hero Point costs of the rewards that they want. Heroic Abilities are easy as they already have prices in Hero Points, but a magic bow, characteristic and skill increases, Rune Touched, etc. are a little more tricky.

*update* wrote Rabbitface instead of Chalk Man in last station, added supporter cost
 
I'm not happy with the balance of the station points award system. It worked out ok in the end but only because the trickster was able to catch and re-use the spent hero points. Without that, at least one of the party would have come out with about half as many points as he did. So the system is too harsh but the trickster benefit is too good and these two ended up balancing out. Or, maybe they weren't ready for this quest yet but the trickster made it do-able. More supporters would also have worked.
 
I've made a list of points costs for HeroQuest rewards using this system. The reward has to be appropriate to the quest. If two rewards are purchased, the second should be doubled in cost, or +5 at most maybe.

Common Magic Items
1 per Temporary item
5 per Permanent Item
1 per Magnitude of spell, plus 1d6 points to Temporary items
1 per 2d6 points in a Temporary item
1 per Cult Rank bonus on refresh time (I will use x10, x5, x2, x1 instead of the A&E chart)
1 per Condition

e.g. a temporary Heal 6 matrix is 7 points and has an average of 21 points. A permanent one would be 11 points. Temporary items already owned can be taken on a quest and recharged for 1 point per 2d6.

Divine Magic items
5 per Temporary Item
10 per Permanent Item
1 per Magnitude
5 per Cult Rank bonus on refresh time (house rule: 1 day, 12 hours, 4 hours, 1 hour)
1 per Condition

Sorcery Magic Item
1 per item
2 per Manipulation point
2 per Magnitude
2 per refresh time reduction (1, 2, 5, 10x)
1 per Condition

Rune Touched ability
3-4 .. +5 to specific skill test
2-3 .. +10 to specific opposed skill test
15 ... +10 to all opposed tests
5 ..... +1 to Strike Rank
6 ..... +1 to Move Rate
8 ..... +1 to a Characteristic
10 .... x2 Common Magic duration
6 ...... Half damage from specific source e.g. fire, poison
10 .... Re-roll 1 die roll per day
10 .... Swap % on 1 die roll per day

I did toy with the idea of buying IRs with Hero Points for characteristics or skills, but I think the Rune Touched rewards are better. The +10 to a test also means that skill advancement is a little faster as that acts on the base skill, the bonus is added when rolled. The variability of the point cost is for skills that are more or less useful. Mechanisms would be slightly cheaper than Resilience for example.

*update* doubled the per-point and refresh cost of Sorcery, not sure whether or how to handle upper limits
 
Some kind of system like this is neeeded, I think. However, I don't think I've got it right. There are major flaws with this system and I'm not sure at the moment how to fix them. Your thoughts are welcome, don't worry about offending me by pointing out how bad the system is, I know it's bad. I made it up as I went along.
 
One of the problems with this is that some Divine spells have no significant Magnitude component, e.g. True(weapon) and Sureshot, they are just as good at Magnitude 1 as they are at Magnitude 10. So some spells are much more cost-effective than others. I'm not sure how to solve this.

Also I think sorcery magic should be more costly as a reward from non-sorcerous quests as it is less appropriate to the myths, this is probably something that will be the subject of God Learner manipulation. As the GLs assimilate a cult from being divine into a sorcerous order (e.g. Gark, Ompalam) then the cost of sorcery-based rewards would come down (or, to put it another way, so the power of sorcerous rewards goes up).

Also I think I am giving the players too much choice in their reward. I should make the rewards and just give them a choice.

I was a bit worried about the balance issue of giving a character a bow with Accurate Missile 7 in it, but that's no more than a starting character with that spell could cast for 1MP. The spell is a bit overpowered though. Had I thought about it more, I would have nerfed it like I did the Enhance spells, but I've given it now and I don't like taking things away.
 
I like there to be a sacrifice at the start or near the beginning of the HeroQuest. For permanent items, I usually require a POW sacrifices (I know it's a big sacrifice in MRQII) or a Magic Point sacrifice for non-permanent rewards. Characters who don't sacrifice can still go along, they are just supporters instead of main characters.

That simple ruling has allowed party harmony when a quest is for one person's needs and not for everyone -- but everyone can participate if they choose to.

I like your codification of rewards. It's probably going to be a few months before I run another HeroQuest, but I'll try to use them at that point.

Steve
 
I also require POW sacrifice (and sometimes other characteristics) for permanent items. The current trend seems to be towards harmonising POW dedications (that leave the stat intact, but not the MPs) with MP dedication - as per A&E enchantment and what I saw of blood magic, also temporary enchantments in Spellcom. I'd not be surprised if RQ6 went a route that explicitly puts these things into the same structure. Ultimately the current pact/POW dedication rules remove the use of the MPs to an off-screen character, and enchantments remove the MPs from play altogether. So they are essentially the same. The underlying thing is a Magic Point economy.

I may be stuck in the RQ3 paradigm of permanent sacrifices, but I have always been interested in what happens to an enchanted item - or, for that matter, dedicated POW after the creator's death. Hence a permanent change requires a permanent sacrifice - so if you sacrifice POW for an enchantment the enchantment now has it, and keeps it (and continues to function) when you die. The lack of POW gain rolls every time you beat someone in spirit combat or pitch up at the temple on high holy day in MRQ2 admittedly makes this stuff very expensive.

AoT has a permanent sacrifice mechanism for permanent enchantments on that basis, but also allows long term spells where you cannot recover the MPs until you cancel the spell or it expires, and can happily accommodate the temporary enchantments rules, which amount to much the same.

How are you handling these things?
 
Simulacrum said:
I may be stuck in the RQ3 paradigm of permanent sacrifices, but I have always been interested in what happens to an enchanted item - or, for that matter, dedicated POW after the creator's death...
How are you handling these things?
Permanent sacrifices are an RQ3 thing, and dedicated POW is only appropriate for divine pacts as all other forms of magic require MPs and dedicating POW cripples your MPs. I would no more require a POW sacrifice for a magical item than I would for a Heroic Ability or being Rune Touched.

*** Spoiler ***
I was astonished to see the final penalty in Blood of Orlanth for God Learner characters. My reaction to that is "Ok, there's everyone's characters trashed." In RQ3 it would not have been that bad.
 
PhilHibbs said:
Also I think I am giving the players too much choice in their reward. I should make the rewards and just give them a choice.

I think the reward should (pretty much always)* be related to the quest, so I don't think you should just say "Well done, you succeeded in the quest, you have x points to spend on rewards".

Whether you design the rewards with the players input, or just tell them what they've got is more a matter of style than rule. "Traditionally" it is part of the GM role to define the treasure, but there is nothing out of place in players trying to Heroquest for particular powers (or items with those powers).

One problem with defining the rewards "up front" is that you won't know how well they succeed in the quest until the end. If you wait until you know how many points they have then you may end up with finishing the quest this week, but not knowing what rewards you got until next week, which can feel less satisfying (If players are designing there own rewards they may not be confirmed until the next session, but they have had the intervening time working on the reward themselves).

*maybe not for Lanbril robs Asrelia's storehouse... - but Heroquesting is about recreating myths, and in the myth the hero gets a specific reward. If Aladin decides to search the cave for a magic sword rather than the magic lamp then the story will unfold in a very different way...
 
duncan_disorderly said:
PhilHibbs said:
Also I think I am giving the players too much choice in their reward. I should make the rewards and just give them a choice.

I think the reward should (pretty much always)* be related to the quest, so I don't think you should just say "Well done, you succeeded in the quest, you have x points to spend on rewards".
Indeed, the reward has to be appropriate, but I'm happy for the player to join in the process of working out how the item behaves in game mechanical terms. It's a magic bow, that's determined by the quest, but precisely what MRQ2 spell effect is employed is never specified in the myth.
 
PhilHibbs said:
Indeed, the reward has to be appropriate, but I'm happy for the player to join in the process of working out how the item behaves in game mechanical terms. It's a magic bow, that's determined by the quest, but precisely what MRQ2 spell effect is employed is never specified in the myth.

This is more a "style of play" thing them. As I said before in a Traditional /old school game, the GM will tell the players what there characters find. In a more Indie/Storytelling type game the players may have much more say in defining the rewards they get, either as part of the setting the stakes for the contest(s) or as part of the outcome narration.

By setting the "price" of abilities in terms of points gained from the HeroQuest you are adding a method of ensuring (a) the rewards are comensurate with the performance in the quest and (b) that the particpants rewards are "balanced" across the party (assuming each character gains rewards individually, rather than pooling all the points for a single powerful reward (might be a powerful magic item, might be a powerful spell/magic effect for the benefit of the community - ending a drought, enhancing fertilty of livestock, curing disease, cursing enemy).
 
PhilHibbs said:
... I would no more require a POW sacrifice for a magical item than I would for a Heroic Ability or being Rune Touched...
Cough, cough. I guess it's good you're not playing in my campaign! :)

But in my defense, I also give ways for the characters to get the POW back -- but it's usually another adventure. I like it when one adventure provides the motivation for the next. But I recognize that POW sacrifice is not canon, and not everyone's cup of tea.

Yes, it's very RQ3. Some habits die hard.

Steve
 
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