Hyborian Speculations

[Seeker]

Hi.

Just got Ruins of Hyboria and its the best supplement yet !!!.

It did start me speculating on a number of things though:

1) Are the Winged Ape in Queen of Black Coast and the winged man in The Garden of Fear descended from the same race ???

Both are humanoid and have bat-like wings. Both appear in stories set in the Hyborian Age, though many miles apart. In both stories, it is hinted that they are the last survivors of an ancient winged race.

Could these winged men be related to the creatures Solomon Kane fights in "Wings in the Night". ???. They too have bat-wings.

2) Is it my imagination or do the locations of the green stone cities follow a roughly diagonal line from north-east to south-west across Hyboria ????

Assuming they started as Lemurians, could they not have migrated in this direction across Hyboria, building the cities as they went ???

(In my campaign, I am looking at the PCs finding a ruined green city on the steppes of northern Hykrania, far off the caravan routes. The nomads are superstious of it and steer clear of it)

After the builders had finished the green stone cities in Kush, where did they go ??? Did they build ships and sail off across the Western Sea ??? To the south coast of Mayapan ??? Were they the ancestors of the Toltecs ???

Did they build any other green cities on islands midway across the Western Sea ??? These would be good sites for Pirate expeditions to discover !!!!!

Does any have any thoughts on these matters or any speculations of their own to share ???

Thanks

 

[kintire]

1) I haven't read the garden of fear, but the suggestion sounds plausible. It is made quite clear that the creature Conan kills is the last one, so Solomon Kane's harpies must be a different creature.

2) Your speculations about green cities seem plausible. The race that built them went to Xuthal, where they still remain.

Slightly thinned out now.

 

[Sven]

1. The Winged Ones from "Garden of Fear" and "Queen of the Black Coast" are probably the same. The ape-like one from "Queen of the Black Coast" was only mutated and corrupted because of the poisonous waters. The other one in "Garden of Fear" was still healthy before he was killed.

The harpies from "Wings in the night" are a different species. In the Kull-Storie "Shadow Kingdom" Brule speaks about the elder races, and he speaks of the winged devils and of the birdwomen or harpies. (I know most stories only in the german versions, so I use the translations from german to english, but I think the original is something like that). The Kull-Stories are a treasure trove of the elder days, it is always good to read other stories from Howard. ("Marchers of Valhalla" is very interesting)

I have used the harpies in one adventure which played in eastern Shem.

2. You are right, most of the green stone cities are along a diagonal line. But this cóuld be explained by the fact, that in lands north from them civilised lands like Stygia begin. I think in the northern regions, including the hyborian kingdoms, there were also green stone cities in the past, but these were destroyed even before the fall of Acheron.

Or, another possible reason: The green stone cities were built during an Ice Age, and this line was just south from the Ice borders. According to Howard there was one Ice Age before Acheron, if I remember it correctly.

I think some Lemurians were indeed the ancestors of the Toltecs and some other groups in South America, and maybe even North America. The great snake (in form of Yig and Quetzalcoatl) were worshipped there.

Mabe there are more green stone cities in the southern Kingdoms we do not know of, these parts are almost unexplored.

 

[Seeker]

Thanks for the excellent replies, guys.

I've done a bit more checking. I think the text of the quote in "The Shadow Kingdom" goes like this:

"They [the Elder Races] are gone, the bird-women, the harpies, the bat-men, the flying fiends, the wolf-people, the demons, the goblins-all such as this being that lies at our feet [a defeated Serpent Man], and a few of the wolf-men".


It seems safe therefore to say that The Harpies are a separate race, as encountered by Kane but dating back to the dawn of time. (I'll probably use Harpy stats from the Monster Manual for them).

The "bat-men" and "flying fiends" are probably our race of Winged Ones. Cool.

I suppose that the Wolf-People would be the were-wolves encountered by Conan and in the later historical stories "In the Forest of Villefère" and "Wolfshead".

I think you are right about reading the other Howard stories being

 

[Bregales]

2) Is it my imagination or do the locations of the green stone cities follow a roughly diagonal line from north-east to south-west across Hyboria ????

Assuming they started as Lemurians, could they not have migrated in this direction across Hyboria, building the cities as they went ???

(In my campaign, I am looking at the PCs finding a ruined green city on the steppes of northern Hykrania, far off the caravan routes. The nomads are superstious of it and steer clear of it)

You are correct, the Lemurians DID once have an empire that spanned across much of the world into many modern Hyborian kingdoms. So sure, your example sounds fine to me. Hyrkania definitely saw Lemurian influence long ago.

After the builders had finished the green stone cities in Kush, where did they go ??? Did they build ships and sail off across the Western Sea ??? To the south coast of Mayapan ??? Were they the ancestors of the Toltecs ???

They went the way of the Dodo bird. :wink:

Did they build any other green cities on islands midway across the Western Sea ??? These would be good sites for Pirate expeditions to discover !!!!!

Sounds good to me. Look at the Isle of Iron Statues also for influence: the important thing these ruins have in common is that their builders are unknown or gone or have devolved to a state dissimilar to that of their builders' former state. One usually does not know the fate or origin of the ruins, although in some Howard stories Conan or the femme fatale had a dream or vision where clues were given, or a villain relates a story, or an artifact gives a clue or a monster like the Devil in Iron may tell them. Considering how both Howard and Lovecraft wrote stories with similar interests (Howard wrote many Cthulhu stories, and Conan stories are often filled with the sense of ruin, except rather than quail and go mad Conan instead goes beserk :twisted: ) but the gist of my writing is that the ruins are above all mysterious and ghostly and not to be trusted.

I just got my copy of Ruins of Hyboria today, so I can't wait to read it, glad you gave it a good recommendation!