How to make Traveller more popular with TTRPG players

[CaptKraken]

Long-time RPGer. Relatively new Traveller player. New Forum Poster.

Read all of the past 16 pages of posts, and I’m glad I already enjoy the game. If I’d found this first, I would have backed out slowly.

IMO, the comments around visibility are key. Getting the game out in front of new people is critical, but it also matters WHO is an ambassador to the game. A look at some of the comments here reinforces that point. Let me share my Traveller experience.

Around 15 years ago, I attended a con and signed up for a “Learn to play Traveller” event. The person running this event is moderately well-known in the Traveller community, which seems worth noting. I sit down for the game, and I’m handed a character sheet. The premade character is an engineer. Cool, I can certainly run with that. I’ll fix stuff and rig up some tech. The game starts with our ship already on the planet. The crew sets out. But “wait,” says the referee. The engineer stays with the ship. Ok, there must be a reason for this, so I stay with the ship.

An hour goes by, and I do nothing. During the second hour, I get to support a sensor roll or something. This whole time, I’m thinking, surely there must be a plot reason for this, and I’m going to get to do something at the end of the mission. Hour three is rolling along. The rest of the crew makes a roll for something, I don’t remember what. They succeed. “Congratulations!” the referee says, “You’ve completed the mission.” After the game, the ref said to me, “Sorry, there wasn’t much for you to do.” WTF, you set up this game as a teaching opportunity and told me to stay on the ship. Not only did I not want to play Traveller, but I also told other gamer friends not to play it either. Last I checkied this person is still running games...

Running a game poorly in a teaching environment drove me away from the game for over 10 years. What changed? YouTube, particularly Seth Skorkowsky and Glass Cannon. I watched Seth for Call of Cthulhu content, and because of him, I gave Traveller another shot. Both he and Glass Cannon made the game actually seem fun. Some people may not like it, but a lot of players are finding new games through actual plays that are fun to watch. That might mean the game runs a little too narrative or improv-driven for some; however, it does get people watching the content. Critical Role, Glass Cannon, and others don’t just get views because they are voice actors, but because they understand pacing and how to hook an audience. Hook your players and make it interesting. A fair amount of Traveller content available online doesn’t do that. (Now that I know the game, I do watch that content, but it isn’t what brought in a new player.)

Now I’ve just finished running a ~2.5-year campaign with 10 players. Episodic and drop-in/drop-out in nature. These are all new players ranging in age from 13 to 50. I made many mistakes, but they had a good time. We plan to play Cluster Trucker next. New players unlocked.

Now I still want to play as a PC, and I’ve tried a few online games, both paid and unpaid. My experience there has been average to subpar, much like the experience that drove me away from the game in the first place. The games just weren't FUN or ENGAGING. To draw in more players, the games available have to be more interesting than the other game that’s right around the corner.

All of that to say, too much of the previous conversation focuses on player and setting concerns rather than on how to RUN a better game of Traveller.

A game with a more appealing presentation will be more popular. The last couple of releases achieve that. Look at Cluster Trucker. Just from the cover, I know what this is going to be about, the tone of that game, and what to expect. Things are heading in a good direction.

What the game needs are tools that make it easier for referees to run and for players to understand. More how-to-play videos that are well-produced. VTT tools that work smoothly and don’t require me to buy every book I already own again. Maps that are both labelled for the GM and unlabelled for the players. FREE online character creation tools, system generators, trade generators, easy ship construction tools, and really anything that streamlines the game and makes it visually appealing to look at. Even better, house them in one place instead of scattered across the internet. Lots of games with smaller player bases and less history have those tools. Star Trek Adventures, for example, has beautiful resources, but there are others without IPs attached.

I’m kind of shocked MOTHERSHIP hasn’t been mentioned yet. The Mothership Warden’s Operation Manual is an exceptional book for any GM with a clean articulation of how to run games, especially space games. While I’m at it all also add that I’d love to see mission/adventure generation tables for popular sectors for when you need something on the fly. That could be a separate book or included in future releases. Look at what popular hex-crawl fantasy settings like Dolmenwood are doing right now.

Make Traveller easier to run. Provide better guidance for referees on hosting fun, appealing games, so players will want to play them.

 

[rinku]

Well said.

 

[actionman]

Long-time RPGer. Relatively new Traveller player. New Forum Poster.

Make Traveller easier to run. Provide better guidance for referees on hosting fun, appealing games, so players will want to play them.

Excellent post, great insights.

Read all of the past 16 pages of posts, and I’m glad I already enjoy the game. If I’d found this first, I would have backed out slowly.

I don't blame you at all. Certain Traveller forums and mailing lists have corrosive atmospheres, and here we go again. The difference here is that the Mongoose staff doesn't pick sides.

The person running this event is moderately well-known in the Traveller community...

Why am I not surprised.

YouTube, particularly Seth Skorkowsky and Glass Cannon.

Funny, I found both those channels annoying. Seth is much more interesting when he's speaking in an interview and using his normal conversational tone and cadence. I'll give them another try.

Now I’ve just finished running a ~2.5-year campaign with 10 players.

Well done!

 

[IanBruntlett]

Long-time RPGer. Relatively new Traveller player. New Forum Poster.

Nice
<snip!>

I’m kind of shocked MOTHERSHIP hasn’t been mentioned yet. The Mothership Warden’s Operation Manual is an exceptional book for any GM with a clean articulation of how to run games, especially space games. While I’m at it all also add that I’d love to see mission/adventure generation tables for popular sectors for when you need something on the fly. That could be a separate book or included in future releases. Look at what popular hex-crawl fantasy settings like Dolmenwood are doing right now.

I'd never heard of it. It's on DriveThruRPG - can you go into more detail? Thanks.

Make Traveller easier to run. Provide better guidance for referees on hosting fun, appealing games, so players will want to play them.

Take a peek at Mongoose's Traveller Companion. I have attached a PDF to complement Mongoose's Supplement Campaign Guide, with notes about other inspirational texts.

Merry Christmas

 

[Sigtrygg]

In my opinion Pirates of Drinax is a pseudo setting - can't really comment much more than that as all I have are the free first edition files for a kickstarter and I won't go near the 2e version
In a similar way Cluster truck appears to be its own little pesudo setting. Don't have Borderlands either but people say it is a good sandbox. The MgT Starter Set had Fall of Tinath...

Could all three not be removed from charted space to make their own settings?

I wonder if a setting plus rules light would work...

 

[Sigtrygg]

Maybe look at a narrative economy? WEG Star Wars had the Force Points, where you burned them to make things happen and were rewarded for doing so heroically, or at a dramatically appropriate moment? Not suggesting Traveller needs to look at the morality of actions at all, but stuff like this both helps the story happen how everyone wants it to and gives the players something at a game mechanic level to play for.

My hat of meta currency know no limits...
more seriously Mongoose Traveller already has a narrative meta currency in a way, it is called boon and bane. Have you noticed how it gets almost no mention in supplements and adventures, almost as if the game authors don't know how to use it effectively.

My groups love it, they like rolling 3d instead of 2d, and I use it to encourage role playing (describe your character's actions very well and come up with some scene input - gain boon, also good for one character giving an advantage to another).

 

[Takei]

Running a game poorly in a teaching environment drove me away from the game for over 10 years. What changed? YouTube, particularly Seth Skorkowsky and Glass Cannon. I watched Seth for Call of Cthulhu content, and because of him, I gave Traveller another shot. Both he and Glass Cannon made the game actually seem fun. Some people may not like it, but a lot of players are finding new games through actual plays that are fun to watch. That might mean the game runs a little too narrative or improv-driven for some; however, it does get people watching the content. Critical Role, Glass Cannon, and others don’t just get views because they are voice actors, but because they understand pacing and how to hook an audience. Hook your players and make it interesting. A fair amount of Traveller content available online doesn’t do that. (Now that I know the game, I do watch that content, but it isn’t what brought in a new player.)

A game with a more appealing presentation will be more popular. The last couple of releases achieve that. Look at Cluster Trucker. Just from the cover, I know what this is going to be about, the tone of that game, and what to expect. Things are heading in a good direction.

I think Glass Cannon doing Cluster Truck would be great publicity for Traveller.

 

[CaptKraken]

Nice
<snip!>

I'd never heard of it. It's on DriveThruRPG - can you go into more detail? Thanks.

Take a peek at Mongoose's Traveller Companion. I have attached a PDF to complement Mongoose's Supplement Campaign Guide, with notes about other inspirational texts.

Merry Christmas

I'll respond to the Mothership question a little later since I think that's worth a separate post. I do have the Traveller Companion on my shelf. There is valuable information in that book; however, it suffers from significant layout issues. The rule systems and subsystems are nice, but they still don't really tell anyone how to tie it all together. For example, the section on Refereeing Traveller has some decent advice, but it's pretty generic RPG guidance. Most critically, it suffers from an unfortunate placement in the text. Wedging this between a section on vehicle damage and Interpreting UWP Data is a choice. As a reader, I find it hard to locate, which demonstrates that the editors didn't consider it crucial.

Thanks for the Supplement Guide. I will put it to good use. It's hard to believe that in the handful of bundles of holding style Traveller collections I've picked up, Supplement 9: Campaign Guide does not seem to be among them, which is also part of the new player problem. I should have to hunt across multiple editions to hack together a decent collection of GM material.

 

[MarcusIII]

The crew sets out. But “wait,” says the referee. The engineer stays with the ship.

That tells me all I need to know about the Ref. He/she doesn't know what a ref is in an RPG. Sorry you got a bad one.

 

[actionman]

Sorry you got a bad one.

You know, from what I've observed on Traveller forums which shall remain nameless, it seems to me that there are some rigid personalities in the Traveller community who really do think they know it all, and who wouldn't think twice about telling someone how to play his character down to not letting him leave the ship.

 

[MarcusIII]

You know, from what I've observed on Traveller forums which shall remain nameless, it seems to me that there are some rigid personalities in the Traveller community who really do think they know it all, and who wouldn't think twice about telling someone how to play his character down to not letting him leave the ship.

Wow, I've never played with a GM in any RPG that told players what to do with their PCs

 

[CaptKraken]

Self-reflection is an important skill—something I was suggesting at the beginning of my initial post.

 

[Vormaerin]

You know, from what I've observed on Traveller forums which shall remain nameless, it seems to me that there are some rigid personalities in the Traveller community who really do think they know it all, and who wouldn't think twice about telling someone how to play his character down to not letting him leave the ship.

I mean, you can go into any RPG community and find people like that unless there's some pretty strict community management by the game developer. And even then, you'll find them in the locales that aren't controlled by the game designer.

 

[CaptKraken]

I mean, you can go into any RPG community and find people like that unless there's some pretty strict community management by the game developer. And even then, you'll find them in the locales that aren't controlled by the game designer.

Which, to me, largely explains why new players to both RPGs and Traveller aren't coming to forums to find out about new games. This is a possible answer to the original question of the thread.

 

[CaptKraken]

I'd never heard of it. It's on DriveThruRPG - can you go into more detail? Thanks.

I was going to write up a good explanation of Mothership, but I think I might recommend a YouTube Review instead. In short, Mothership is a sci-fi horror game primarily designed for one-shots and short campaigns. Thematically, it sits between Alien and Traveller for me, but it also shares a retro-sci-fi aesthetic and combat that is best avoided. The Warden's Operation Manual mentioned in the video has, IMO, excellent advice on running any sci-fi game. Both products have extensive previews available on multiple sites.

I also mention it because it has a retro feel, but it is a very modern-feeling game. A $1.3 M USD Kickstarter a few years ago and dozens of award-winning adventures tell me there's a market for the genre, and issues like (in-game) dated tech, lack of aliens, and a retro feel are not the problem.

My intention here is not to steer anyone away from Traveller, but to pull tools from other games that might be helpful. Gaming advice I heard a long time ago was "if your normal game is feeling stale, play one-shots or short campaigns of something else and come back."

 

[actionman]

I mean, you can go into any RPG community and find people like that unless there's some pretty strict community management by the game developer. And even then, you'll find them in the locales that aren't controlled by the game designer.

Of course, but since @CaptKraken was talking about Traveller and a ref that was moderately well-known in the Traveller community, I confined my comments to the Traveller community.

But, I do think that some parts of the Traveller community have a hard edge to them that is unpleasant, unnecessary, and quite off-putting. Other communities having similar problems doesn't change that, and we don't need to treat each other that way.

As @CaptKraken stated,

I’m glad I already enjoy the game. If I’d found this first, I would have backed out slowly.

He's not wrong.

 

[Anstett]

Maybe look at a narrative economy? WEG Star Wars had the Force Points, where you burned them to make things happen and were rewarded for doing so heroically, or at a dramatically appropriate moment? Not suggesting Traveller needs to look at the morality of actions at all, but stuff like this both helps the story happen how everyone wants it to and gives the players something at a game mechanic level to play for.

How do you think about using Luck in this way?

In my game I give out 6 luck to the travellers at the start of each Vignette. They can use it however they wish and it gets replenished at the end of each Vignette. For my players they rarely actually use it. Not sure if they just forget or are hoarders for the "just in case" future.

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, your character can do anything he's capable of, or not, as long as he accepts that there are consequences.

 

[Vormaerin]

Which, to me, largely explains why new players to both RPGs and Traveller aren't coming to forums to find out about new games. This is a possible answer to the original question of the thread.

No, not really.

People don't come to forums as much these days because:
1) you have to know about the game in the first place and forums aren't a form of advertising.
2) most younger people these days use other forms of social media. They are going to look for youtube videos, discords, and other such before they think of forums.

Forums are, generally, MORE moderated than other forms of social media, so the idea that forums scare people off when youtube comments or whatever don't seems unlikely.

And the fact is that if people come here and ask for advice about the game, they get answers about the game that are, by and large, helpful and friendly. This forum is not even remotely toxic, even if once in a while a conversation will get unduly confrontational.

But even if we purged every person who was ever less than friendly and helpful, assuming that left anyone at all, it would attract exactly zero new people to the game. Because the way you get new players is to make them aware that the game exists and demonstrate that it is fun to play. And forums do neither of those things.

What does do those things is hosting in person games and/or streaming content. And, since there is no one true way to run the game or style of play that is the best, when new players encounter those things they will sometimes love that experience, sometimes not love it, and sometimes hate it. And, often, that will have nothing to do with the game itself, but with some element specific to that situation.

I have very good friends I've known for 40ish years that we don't play certain kinds of games together, because our styles of play don't work well together in that kind of game. We play other games where that issue doesn't come up when we are playing together. It's not hard to imagine that would be enormously more so with strangers.

When I lived in NY, I used to run games at the local college conventions all the time. Sometimes the games were amazing and everyone had a great experience. Sometimes, the games were okay, most folks had fun, but sometimes something didn't quite click for the peak experience. And, on rare occasions, something just wouldn't go well for some reason. That's the risk of running for people you don't know. Sometimes it won't work as well as you like.

Nearly all the suggestions in this thread will be appealing to some people and unappealing to other people. Both within the community and to any new players who encounter them. I generally assume people are arguing in good faith until they demonstrate otherwise, whether I agree with them or not.

 

[CaptKraken]

No, not really.

People don't come to forums as much these days because:
1) you have to know about the game in the first place and forums aren't a form of advertising.
2) most younger people these days use other forms of social media. They are going to look for youtube videos, discords, and other such before they think of forums.

Forums are, generally, MORE moderated than other forms of social media, so the idea that forums scare people off when youtube comments or whatever don't seems unlikely.

And the fact is that if people come here and ask for advice about the game, they get answers about the game that are, by and large, helpful and friendly. This forum is not even remotely toxic, even if once in a while a conversation will get unduly confrontational.

But even if we purged every person who was ever less than friendly and helpful, assuming that left anyone at all, it would attract exactly zero new people to the game. Because the way you get new players is to make them aware that the game exists and demonstrate that it is fun to play. And forums do neither of those things.

What does do those things is hosting in person games and/or streaming content. And, since there is no one true way to run the game or style of play that is the best, when new players encounter those things they will sometimes love that experience, sometimes not love it, and sometimes hate it. And, often, that will have nothing to do with the game itself, but with some element specific to that situation.

I have very good friends I've known for 40ish years that we don't play certain kinds of games together, because our styles of play don't work well together in that kind of game. We play other games where that issue doesn't come up when we are playing together. It's not hard to imagine that would be enormously more so with strangers.

When I lived in NY, I used to run games at the local college conventions all the time. Sometimes the games were amazing and everyone had a great experience. Sometimes, the games were okay, most folks had fun, but sometimes something didn't quite click for the peak experience. And, on rare occasions, something just wouldn't go well for some reason. That's the risk of running for people you don't know. Sometimes it won't work as well as you like.

Nearly all the suggestions in this thread will be appealing to some people and unappealing to other people. Both within the community and to any new players who encounter them. I generally assume people are arguing in good faith until they demonstrate otherwise, whether I agree with them or not.

I have no idea if I'm considered a younger player or not to you, but I do currently have YouTube, Discord, and this forum open.

I agree that running the game and streaming are two of the best ways to expand the game. I also think that if the question is "how to make the game more popular," it's essential to look at currently popular games and see what they are doing. And the answer to that question might not be what existing players want to hear.

I'm going to disagree that a forum isn't advertising. It is, it's just indirect. If I throw a Traveller question into any search engine, there's a good chance I'll end up here. I might not create an account or post. Look at the main page numbers to see how many people are just browsing the forums versus logged-in posters.

I also think there is a distinction between toxic and welcoming. I agree this forum isn't toxic. I've read plenty of threads here before, and would agree with that. I don't think it's particularly welcoming. That won't really stop me, but I can see how it would stop others.