How Monstrous?

[iltharanos]

I'm in the middle of reading Conan the Magnificent and I am rather surprised to see a drake featured in the story (the story says they were the creations of ancient Acheronian sorcerers). It was my understanding that drakes (and dragon-like creatures in general) were nonexistant in Conan. From the Bestiary we are told that, although rare, there are vampires, were-beasts, ghouls, ghosts, and demons in Hyborian Earth. I recall frost giants being statted out in one of the Conan accessories. So what other rare D&D-like creatures are present in Conan's world?

Lizardmen in the jungles of the Black Kingdoms?
Mermaids in the western ocean?
Dryads in the Pictish wilderness?

 

[Evilschemer]

There are lots of monsters in Conan stories:

There's a Rhemorraz mentioned by name (possibly the origin of the beast as far as I know) in The Lair of the Ice Worm.
There's a giant slug in the Hall of the Dead.
There's a giant skeleton in the Thing in the Crypt.
Frost Giants in the Frost Giant's Daughter, though that was a dream (OR WAS IT? DUHT-DUHT-DAHHHHH!!).
A Giant Snake guardian in The Devil in Iron.

Then there are the strange Lovecraftian beasties like:
The medusoid man-serpent in the God in the Bowl.
The amoeboid cloud-thing in the Curse of the Monolith.
The demon from beyond in the Vale of the Lost Women.
The winged demon thing and the were-hyenas in the Queen of the Black Coast.
The demon in the Snout in the Dark.
The strange many-limbed abomination in the Castle of Terror.
Thak the ape-man in Rogues in the House.
The animated gold statue in the Blood-stained God.
The winged demons in the Hand of Nergal.
The elephant-headed alien Yag in the Tower of the ELephant.
And many more!

And those are just in the first two collections of short stories and re-writes.
The thing that sets Conan monsters apart from D&D monsters is that in Conan there are typically only one of a monster, ever. In D&D, you've got lots of Griffons, lots of dragons, lots of mermaids, lots of lizard men, losts of orcs, goblins, umber hulks, ropers, rust monsters, what-have-you. Dragon magazine publishes "ecologies" of how these monsters fit into the real world as if they were naturally occuring species.

Conan, like Mythology, treats monsters as MONSTERS. They're abberations, strange, mysterious. They don't have ecologies because they're MYSTERIOUS! No one knows anything about them, how they got there, or what they're doing there, generally. If they're naturally occuring, they're the last of their species and dying out, the remnants of a lost world. Otherwise, they're imported for far-away Lemuria or Mu or some place exotic. The trick is to make them unique, scary, and mysterious. Did I mention mysterious enough?

 

[iltharanos]

Sweet. So monsters are cool, just so long as they're used sparingly to help preserve their mysteriousness. *makes a mental gotcha*

Yag? Isn't Yag worshipped as an oriental God?

 

[Jason Durall]

The thing that sets Conan monsters apart from D&D monsters is that in Conan there are typically only one of a monster, ever. In D&D, you've got lots of Griffons, lots of dragons, lots of mermaids, lots of lizard men, losts of orcs, goblins, umber hulks, ropers, rust monsters, what-have-you. Dragon magazine publishes "ecologies" of how these monsters fit into the real world as if they were naturally occuring species.

Conan, like Mythology, treats monsters as MONSTERS. They're abberations, strange, mysterious. They don't have ecologies because they're MYSTERIOUS! No one knows anything about them, how they got there, or what they're doing there, generally. If they're naturally occuring, they're the last of their species and dying out, the remnants of a lost world. Otherwise, they're imported for far-away Lemuria or Mu or some place exotic. The trick is to make them unique, scary, and mysterious. Did I mention mysterious enough?

Great points, all of them.

If it helps, a rule of thumb when dealing with monsters in Conan would be to think of them more like Dracula, the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Frankenstein, Quasimodo, or the Wolf Man, rather than as the Orcs from Lord of the Rings.

At the most, they should be a smallish group, perhaps a clutch of serpent-men in some forgotten cavern, or bestial half-men on a lost island.

 

[mthomason]

If it helps, a rule of thumb when dealing with monsters in Conan would be to think of them more like Dracula, the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Frankenstein, Quasimodo, or the Wolf Man, rather than as the Orcs from Lord of the Rings.

Alternatively, a lot of Ray Harryhausen's movies (Jason and the Argonauts, the Sinbad movies). Lots of evil men and the occasional build-up to a big monster scene, which should be a highpoint of the adventure with a unique, interesting creature - as opposed to "slash, stab, there goes another monster, bring on the next one". You should try and make each monster the memorable thing for that part of the scenario, ensure you have detailed descriptions to give your players and really build them up as something major, just as those old movies did for their audiences. If you can get an "ooh" or "ahh" out of your players without physical intervention, you're doing a good job

 

[Evilschemer]

Sweet. So monsters are cool, just so long as they're used sparingly to help preserve their mysteriousness. *makes a mental gotcha*

Yag? Isn't Yag worshipped as an oriental God?

Yes, but most gods in Conan and/or Lovecraft are simply powerful alien entities or monsters worshipped as gods by us primitive humans.

 

[Evilschemer]

If it helps, a rule of thumb when dealing with monsters in Conan would be to think of them more like Dracula, the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Frankenstein, Quasimodo, or the Wolf Man, rather than as the Orcs from Lord of the Rings.

Alternatively, a lot of Ray Harryhausen's movies (Jason and the Argonauts, the Sinbad movies). Lots of evil men and the occasional build-up to a big monster scene, which should be a highpoint of the adventure with a unique, interesting creature - as opposed to "slash, stab, there goes another monster, bring on the next one". You should try and make each monster the memorable thing for that part of the scenario, ensure you have detailed descriptions to give your players and really build them up as something major, just as those old movies did for their audiences. If you can get an "ooh" or "ahh" out of your players without physical intervention, you're doing a good job

Harryhausen's Sinbad and Mythology (Jason, Clash) movies are one of the BEST sources for Conan-esque stories and the use of monsters.

 

[iltharanos]

Sweet. So monsters are cool, just so long as they're used sparingly to help preserve their mysteriousness. *makes a mental gotcha*

Yag? Isn't Yag worshipped as an oriental God?

Yes, but most gods in Conan and/or Lovecraft are simply powerful alien entities or monsters worshipped as gods by us primitive humans.

That's true. That, or they may not even exist at all, other than in our own minds (ala Crom).

 

[Sutek]

CROM IS REAL!!! ONLY COWARDS BASPHEME CROM!!!!

...ermm...sorry...got carried away... :shock:

 

[iltharanos]

CROM IS REAL!!! ONLY COWARDS BASPHEME CROM!!!!

...ermm...sorry...got carried away... :shock:

:lol:

Besides, every Mitra worshipper knows Crom is just some demon worshipped by a bunch of unwashed savages. :wink:

 

[S'mon]

I used non-hostile 'Deep Ones' (actually D&D Kuo-Tuo) in a scenario I ran set in the western ocean. As long as you avoid the Tolkienesque demi-humans & goblinoids (elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, orcs & goblins etc) and stick to clearly inhuman or bestial races I think it's fine to use plenty of intelligent humanoid monsters. Likewise avoid 'fey' types. For non-humanoid monsters I'd avoid using heraldic & mythical beasts like griffins, pegasi and centaurs that are mixtures of other animals, though unicorns _might_ just sneak in below the wire, maybe as more medieval-style savage carnivorous horned horses on the Kushite savannahs. Weird things like remorhazes and oozes appear in Conan stories and are perfect, as are giant beetles, spiders (though Spiders feel slightly Tolkieny) etc. The Frost Giants appeared in Conan very much as 'ice/winter spirits', not as a mundane race the way they are in D&D, and if you use them (or fire giants) they should be treated more like exotic fey encountered only at the margins of human existence (mental, spiritual & physical). For 'drakes' I'd say the D&D Wyvern was fine, but don't use the intelligent spellcasting colour-coded D&D dragons, they're very much a D&Dism that ruins the sword & sorcery feel - I've seen this in a published Lankhmar scenario ('Nehwon') and it'd be the same in Conan.

 

[The King]

For 'drakes' I'd say the D&D Wyvern was fine, but don't use the intelligent spellcasting colour-coded D&D dragons, they're very much a D&Dism that ruins the sword & sorcery feel - I've seen this in a published Lankhmar scenario ('Nehwon') and it'd be the same in Conan.

I can only agree with you. If too many fantasy monsters make their appearance in Conan RPG, then that game will just be another D&D campaign setting. This is exactly what happened in the latest Conan pastiches where Tor gave too much freedom to its writers and the genre became an unspeakable silliness. Would they have insulted Howard, they couldn't have done it a better way (I think of Conan and the death lord of Thanza)

 

[Sutek]

I think using them sparingly as the culmination of a story is fine, but then I like over-sized animal encounters in general anyway as opposed to dragons and basilisks and beholders. A 50' crocodile is a huge issue even for a decently powerful party. You gotta think about that though: Does the encounter propel the story. If not, then it's probably not a good encounter. I don't do random encounters either. Randomly occuring pre-generateted and planned encounters is another thing entirely.

 

[The King]

I think using them sparingly as the culmination of a story is fine, but then I like over-sized animal encounters in general anyway as opposed to dragons and basilisks and beholders. A 50' crocodile is a huge issue even for a decently powerful party. You gotta think about that though: Does the encounter propel the story. If not, then it's probably not a good encounter. I don't do random encounters either. Randomly occuring pre-generateted and planned encounters is another thing entirely.

Yes, most critters in Conan (Howard's, not pastiches) are animals, even prehistorical ones, or man-apes and most of Conan's opponents are humans. The true monsters are very rare and either come from the outed void or from dark and isolated corners of the earth. But then they are truly fearsome and powerful (Thog, Akivasha, the giant slug in Larsha, etc.) :twisted:

 

[cornelius]

There's a "dragon" in Red Nails , but the intimation seems to be that it's a reanimated carnivorous dinosaur than a typical fantasy dragon , most of the monsters in Howards stories were either demons or evolutionary regressions / throwbacks . The creatures in The Pool of the Black One are very reminiscent of Deep Ones and considering the Howard / Lovecraft connection I wouldn't be surprised if they were the inspiration ( Another good Cthulhu Mythos crossover opportunity for those of us who like such things ) . Personally I think importing D&D monsters weakens the game - why not just play D&D ? The original stories were brilliant because they focussed on the human elements of the world without the need for loads of fantastic creatures and I find the RPG appealing because of the lack of excessive fantasy elements ( Magic and Demons notwithstanding ) .

 

[The King]

There's a "dragon" in Red Nails , but the intimation seems to be that it's a reanimated carnivorous dinosaur than a typical fantasy dragon , most of the monsters in Howards stories were either demons or evolutionary regressions / throwbacks . The creatures in The Pool of the Black One are very reminiscent of Deep Ones and considering the Howard / Lovecraft connection I wouldn't be surprised if they were the inspiration ( Another good Cthulhu Mythos crossover opportunity for those of us who like such things ) . Personally I think importing D&D monsters weakens the game - why not just play D&D ? The original stories were brilliant because they focussed on the human elements of the world without the need for loads of fantastic creatures and I find the RPG appealing because of the lack of excessive fantasy elements ( Magic and Demons notwithstanding ) .

This is what is called "Sword & Sorcery" but it is harder to write a good novel in that field than in usual fantasy as it is easy to disgress and to introduce high magic and weird monsters. Unfortunately this is exactly what happend in many Conan pastiches written between the 80's and the 90's (just read Conan and the death Lord of Thanza and you will understand what I mean).

 

[Scorpion13mk2]

What was so bad about it?

Anywho, I think that there are alot of monsters from D&D that you could throw in the the game, if ya twink them a little...

Fey: now this is what most people say have no business at all in a Conan game. I disagree. Fey are cool, but they needs to be wicked. Stealing children, seducing travelers (personally, the witch-lady from CTB seems alot like a dryad or a nymph to me), that sort of thing. And dont use them too much.

Dragons: Conans dragons arent a whole lot more than big animals. Just make thier intelligence score 3 or 4, drop the wings, (they didnt usually fly) and the breath wespons, except for may be frost, fire and acid. Physically, dragons are still quite formidable.

Griffins are great too, most mythical beasts are good. But they gotta be rare, thats the key.

Giant animals are the thing to use. Conan is always fighting giant snakes, spiders, apes, scorpions.

 

[Orkin]

The Scarlet Citadel:
"There are creatures," said Pelias, "not alone of earth and sea, but of air and the far reaches of the sky as well, dwelling apart, unguessed of men...." ...a huge, bat-like creature alighted beside him... he saw it was neither bat nor bird.

Lots of room for nightmarish creatures...